Pilot fatigue and the Kirksville crash....long.

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Commuter plane crash sheds light on pilot fatigue issue

Associated Press


KANSAS CITY, Mo. - The crash of a commuter plane in northeast Missouri last week, killing 13 of the 15 people on board, has focused new attention on the length of time pilots are allowed to work on a given day.

The Corporate Airlines plane crashed Oct. 19 on a flight from St. Louis to the northeast Missouri community of Kirksville. It was the sixth flight of the day for pilots Kim Sasse, 48, of Ramsey, N.J., and Jonathan Palmer, 29, of Cincinnati, who died with 11 of their 13 passengers. The two pilots had been on duty for 14 hours 41 minutes, within Federal Aviation Administration guidlines, when Flight 5966 crashed on aproach to the Kirksville airport.

The cause of the crash remains under investigation, and there has been no immediate indication that pilot fatigue played a role. But Corporate Airlines pilots have been talking for months about joining a union, partly because of concern over long hours, a Teamsters official said. "That is one of the issues," Don Treichler, airline division manager for the
Teamsters, told The Kansas City Star. "It has to do with the amount of rest they get, the hours they work, the repetitiveness of the schedule."

FAA regulations now allow flight duty of from 16 hours to 12 hours for pilots, depending on the departure time of their flights. As long ago as 1995 the agency proposed reducing those limits, dropping the maximum time of continuous duty to 14 hours, but the parties couldn't agree and no change
has been made.

Three years ago an FAA study found that a tired pilot is two to four times more likely to have an accident, and critics, including Jim Hall, a former chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, say a change in the
regulations is long overdue.

"The FAA continues to be a no-show on this issue," said Hall, "It's probably the No. 1 hazard that we have not effectively addressed in all forms of transportation."

"We put in place programs to address alcohol and drugs, yet we leave fatigue hanging out there with nothing done," Hall said. "It's not something we can say we don't have the information to do something about. The information
exists, and lives are being lost because we are failing to take action."

"There is no question that pilot fatigue is present in our commercial airline operations," Capt. Duane W. Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Assocation, told a House subcommittee in 1999. John Mazor, spokesman for the
association, said the group supports a 12-hour maximum for pilots.

"The effects of a long duty day are real," he said. "Fifteen, 16 hours is a very grueling work schedule for anybody. But if you're performing a complex function such as flying an airplane, the effect on performance are even more critical."

Mazor pointed to the "subtle effects" of fatigue.

"If you look at enough accident investigations, very frequently you'll come to a point where you say, why did the pilot do that, or why didn't they do this, when they were supposed to?" he said. "You can't assume that they were
all just so grossly incompetent that they failed to do something that any pilot should have done without thinking."

FAA officials said the restrictions were unchanged because no one could agree on the proposals.

"There was never any consensus on it," said Elizabeth Isham Cory, an FAA spokeswoman. "We asked for comment, and the comments were all over the board. The industry is not giving us much direction, either. So basically, the regulations still stand."

Most of the more than 2,000 comments about the 1995 proposal opposed it, the FAA said.

Diana Cronan, a spokeswoman for the Air Transportation Association, said many of the carriers go beyond the FAA guidelines on flight-duty time.

"They've become even more stringent than what the FAA has put in place," she said. Brannan Atkinson, spokesman for Corporate Airlines, which is based in Smyrna, Tenn., said the possibility of pilot fatigue being a factor in the Kirksville crash was "pure speculation." He also wouldn't speculate on why
the company's approximately 60 pilots were exploring union affiliation.

"Like any company, we work really hard to provide our employees, including pilots, with competitive benefits and wages," Atkinson said. "At the same time, we absolutely support the right of the pilots to say 'yes' to unionization or also to say 'no.'"

A spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board, Keith Holloway, said the possibility of pilot fatigue would be one of the issues examined in an investigation that could last months.

---

Information from: The Kansas City Star
 
I hate to sound "happy" about a crash, and I'm not, but if there is a positive side to this accident, maybe it is that some rules can be changed to either reduce the maximum time a crew can be on duty or increase the rest time between duty days.

It seems to be an issue that is ignored and it should not be.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I hate to sound "happy" about a crash, and I'm not, but if there is a positive side to this accident, maybe it is that some rules can be changed to either reduce the maximum time a crew can be on duty or increase the rest time between duty days.

It seems to be an issue that is ignored and it should not be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just finished a 13 hour duty day with an approach to mins at DCA and I'll tell you, I'm whipped beyond belief. Now the FAA says that I can do another 3 hours and that's absolutely nuts.

But the FAA reducing the 16 hours down to 12 hours isn't going to happen for decades because the airlines will fight it tooth and nail. Considering it was a massive fight over years to get it 'solidified' at 16-hours, I seriously doubt if the FAA has the cajones to stand up to the Airline Transport Association and the Regional Airline Association and bring the maximum duty day down to something safe and realistic.

The 'reduced rest' rules are a joke as well because you can go down to hours of rest as long as you're given 'compensatory' rest at the end of the work day. But even 8 hours of rest equals about 5 hours of sleep when you count round trip van service to/from the hotel, eating if you're hungry and 'spool down' time after a long day.

Fatigues been whacking pilots since the beginning of time, but as long as we're not wrecking a inordinate amount of airplanes with massive fatalities, the FAA doesn't care.

Not to sound negative, but the FAA isn't in the 'flight safety' business.
 
The Rest Rules are an absolute joke. The FAA is too busy in bed with all the companies to consider dropping the restto a 12 hr duty day. I cant believe they can get away with a 16 hr duty still, absolutely nuts.. I have over 50 pages interpreting the rules. The company can easily abuse them. After reduced rest on a 16 hr duty day they can still make you work upto 14 hours the next day. The rules are written in blood, it took a lot of deaths just to get that 16 hr duty day hard limit in place. The only way to get around this is to call in fatigued when you can no longer function.
 
Where in the FAR's is this 16 hour duty limit? I've been studiying for the ATP and have not been able to find it in my 121 regs. All I can find are flight limitations.
 
What type of aircraft was it that crashed?

Yesterday in the B1900, we did a 13hr duty, 5 sectors, no autopilot and luckily no real weather to worry about. Having to nail an ILS at the end of that would have been a big ask as both of us were truly worn out.

Some of our pilots are taking energy drinks on long flights, anyone else coming across this these days? What are your opinions?
 
Why is it always jobs that precision have long duty times. My friend is a trauma surgeon and 24-hour duty days are not uncommon.
 
Re: Pilot fatigue and the Kirksville crash....long

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it always jobs that [require] precision have long duty times. My friend is a trauma surgeon and 24-hour duty days are not uncommon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question! The hours of service regulations I comply with as a commercial bus driver are essentially unchanged since 1935! Simply put, after an 8 hour off-duty period I can legally drive until (a) I've been on duty for 15 hours and/or (b) I've already driven 10 hours.

The kicker is that my 15 hour on-duty period CAN be split and extended by breaks and that there is nothing in the regulations that take into account the body's natural circadian rhythm that makes you sleepy at the times of night when you are ordinarily sleeping and awake during the daytime and early evening when you are ordinarily awake.

So it is perfectly legal for me to drive for extended periods through the night even though I am unable to initiate a preemptive cycle of restorative sleep during the required off-duty period ahead of time.

For example, it’s not uncommon for a school group to get their bus driver up at 6am on the last day at their destination city and have him or her take them to their activities throughout that day and then have him or her drive them 8 hours toward home leaving at 11pm or midnight that night. And it's perfectly legal, because the bus driver only accumulated 2 hours of driving and maybe 4-5 total hours of on-duty time on that last day. Another common example is for a relief driver to be positiond along the route somewhere but for the driver change to happen at a really bad time, like between 10pm and 3am. So the relief driver gets out to the relief point and stays in a hotel for at least 8 hours, but they get no sleep before driving up to 10 hours through the night because most people who otherwise sleep on a normal cycle can't fall asleep on demand at an odd time earlier in the day.

I'm a low time PPL so I don't know what it's like for pilots up in the pitch black sky for extended periods at night, but the road hypnotizes you. You can't take your attention off of it for even a couple seconds, and at night you can't see anything else to stimulate your brain. Eventually, the lines on the road start swirling and changing color. No sh*t. There have been a couple instances where I've momentarily fallen asleep at the wheel, with a full load of 57 pax on board. If you're riding a charter bus or sending your children on charter bus trips that drive straight through the night, you have reason to be very concerned. The vast majority of travel agents and school officials that plan these sorts of trips think nothing of it.

Just like what Doug said, we aren't crashing these buses off of the highway in too high of numbers, so the DOT and others don't care.

-Mike
 
Back
Top