Personal minimums.....?

Goonie

Goonie

Never say die
So we had a student transfer to our school from some school that closed down somewhere in Florida.

I was getting ready to do his EOC (end of course). As I was looking in his logbook to make sure he had the req. I noticed that he had 0 actual instrument time logged.

me... "bummer, no chance to get some actual during your training?"

student..."Nah, my instructor wouldnt ever go up if the ceilings were below 2000'."

me..."huh, why?

student..." He had "personal minimums" of 2000'."

me..:confused: :banghead:

To the future instrument student...
If you have an instructor that has "personal minimums" then run as fast as you can to a new instructor! You will get sub par training from a sub par instructor.


To the future instructor...
I beg that you dont have these "personal minimums". Man up Nancy!!:) Your minimums should be PUBLISHED minimums. You're just gonna breed students like you.
 
Mostly agree.

As a CFI, you should be completely aware of most of the aproaches in your teaching area. And you should be able to do them anytime it is leagly possible.

2000 ft ceiling for a minimum is just stupid.



OTOH, I personally wouldn't do a circle to land at night peroid.

Also going into an unfamiliar airport, I really want good vis under those clouds.

I personaly want conditions above the leagle mins holding steady or improving, there just isn't any need to race weather in on a training flight.
 
There is a guy here in training with me at Colgan and he has 0 ACTUAL INSTURMENT.

1000 hours TOTAL!
 
Not a CFI, but I agree with lower personal mins at fields you know the approaches. Unfamilar I would (and do) brief and decide the mins for that field based on weather that day (I increase ceilings on worse cross winds). Problem is I have gotten used to a few fields NOT in the area that I now fly them at published as I have been to them more then the local fields (excluding home field). :crazy:

During IFR training go looking for weather. Best way to learn IMO!

And on the Colgan comment, I was worried with only 3% of my time Actual IFR. Go figure!
 
ryanmickG said:
To the future instructor...
I beg that you dont have these "personal minimums". Man up Nancy!!:) Your minimums should be PUBLISHED minimums. You're just gonna breed students like you.
Click to expand...

You guys are real cowboys! ;)

In all seriousness, 2000' personal minimums as a CFII?? What a joke. I still say that at least SOME actual IFR should be required to get the instrument rating. You just can't simulate what being in the clouds is really like.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
Not a CFI, but I agree with lower personal mins at fields you know the approaches. Unfamilar I would (and do) brief and decide the mins for that field based on weather that day (I increase ceilings on worse cross winds). Problem is I have gotten used to a few fields NOT in the area that I now fly them at published as I have been to them more then the local fields (excluding home field). :crazy:

During IFR training go looking for weather. Best way to learn IMO!
Click to expand...

Personal mins should not be in your aviation vocab unless it comes to signing a student pilot off.

Thats another problem with some IFR training I've seen. People go out and do the same approaches at the same airports for 40 hours.

If you get a chance to get a part 61 student take them all over the country.

I took two students from GKY- GUP- VGT- SFO- LAX- ELP- GKY. Had them doing all the filing, WX briefing, copying clearences, and talking on the radios by the end of the trip. Their checkride was a breeze. And it was a good 35 hour flight;) lots of beer and gambaling too.
 
Monty said:
You guys are real cowboys! ;)

In all seriousness, 2000' personal minimums as a CFII?? What a joke. I still say that at least SOME actual IFR should be required to get the instrument
rating. You just can't simulate what being in the clouds is really like.
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Agree, 5 hours of actual should be a req. IMO

And simulated partial panel training is a joke. It compares nothing to a real vacuum failure in IMC....trust me :panic:

It takes about 30 seconds before your brain says "turn on the autopilot dummy"
 
ryanmickG said:
To the future instrument student...
If you have an instructor that has "personal minimums" then run as fast as you can to a new instructor! You will get sub par training from a sub par instructor.


To the future instructor...
I beg that you dont have these "personal minimums". Man up Nancy!!:) Your minimums should be PUBLISHED minimums. You're just gonna breed students like you.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%, and I've dealt with this issue in the past.

If you're an active CFII, you should be comfortable flying any published approach that you're been trained and tested on (if you're a CFII, that's all of them, right?), that your aircraft is equipped for and that you're legal to fly.

Day, night, in between, and down to minimums.

USMCmech said:
OTOH, I personally wouldn't do a circle to land at night peroid.
Click to expand...

Wow . . . really?
 
ryanmickG said:
Personal mins should not be in your aviation vocab unless it comes to signing a student pilot off.
Click to expand...

Going to disagree on that one. Weather briefers don't truely know the weather out there (they arent in it) and not enough pilots give pireps (another issue IMO). Even in the low hours I have had, I have had bad enough weather to know that its safer to have an extra hundred feet over published to make sure I make it back to the ground for the wife and kids. Kinda like carrying additional fuel for the family, I do the same with mins. I might divert or cancel more then others, but I'm still hear to talk about it, and in reality, its not worth the risk sometimes to make that field, if you know what I mean.

BTW: I am flying Part91 for business in a SEL if you didnt know.
 
I'd say SOME personal minimums show a bit of good judgement. If you get to the CFI level and you won't fly if the ceilings are 1800 above mins.....go fly with another CFI until you ARE comfortable. That's just crazy. Now, if it's an approach you've done a lot (like say the VOR/DME 34 into GKY) and the ceilings are crap, mins should be the personal mins for the CFI. I know some people that have gone below mins on that approach (basically it's a contact approach. "Oh, look there's the school.....runway should be coming up any sec....oh look, REILs."), but I won't mention any names. :)


Now, on the flip side, I've seen some CFIs with no personal mins that SHOULD have them. They also breed students like them, and it's not a good thing. Saw a CFI at my old flight school in FL blast off into a t-storm saying "Eh, we'll beat it back." Not the best example to set for a student.
 
Although I think this particular situation is ridiculous, I do believe that personal minimums can be a good thing. I personally have a minimum to always try to have at least 1 hour of reserve fuel rather than the legal 30 minutes during day VFR.

At any rate, I knew an instructor who had over 1,000 hours, had never flown into Class B, and wouldn't fly anywhere near it with his students because it was "too busy."
 
We had a new hire FO here (he may still be here for all I know) who was going through the release with his IOE captain and saw OVC005 at the destination. He told the captain that he didn't feel comfortable departing as that was below his personal minimums. After the CA got done laughing at him and realized the FO was serious, he found out the poor guy had never shot an approach to less then 800 feet before. Simulated or for real. Jeesh.
 
BobDDuck said:
After the CA got done laughing at him and realized the FO was serious, he found out the poor guy had never shot an approach to less then 800 feet before. Simulated or for real. Jeesh.
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Okay, that's just crazy right there. When I was getting my IR, I don't remember many approaches that WEREN'T to mins. Heck, I had one on my CFI-I that was damn near CAT II.

"Can I go visual now?"
"Not yet. You're doing good."
 
mtsu_av8er said:
We're not discussing ice or thunderstorms . . . we're talking about ceilings and visibility. Should NOT be an issue.
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I will still somewhat agree/disagree, but I was thinking more of the current Tstorms I have flown and an ice issue that made me actually remember I had a chute if needed (it is OH you know). I still like to give 50 feet if there is a 20+ cross wind more then 30 degrees off centerline (close to the "demonstrated" in the aircraft I fly).
 
mtsu_av8er said:
We're not discussing ice or thunderstorms . . . we're talking about ceilings and visibility. Should NOT be an issue.
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Thank you!!

IMC and approaches only.

Umm..I have a "personal minimum" of not flying in known ice or volcanic ash. duh
 
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