Payscales

Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel?


Na, it needs another spoke in it for better support right now for sure. We are stepping on each other. I bet management does like that. Job goes to the lowest desperate bid taker...No, wait, you pay me instead for more flight time and the training because we are helping you advance in your career. It's going to the dogs.
 
Every ALPA carrier has one contract, neogotiated with ALPA national every how many years, period. Everyone has the same pay, rigs, scheduling language, etc. From 1900 to 787 pay rates on the single contract.

If you're ALPA you get paid the same no matter what company you work at.

That would solve the whipsaw. But it won't ever happen.
 
A monkey can log time, and anyone with the correct amount of time can get an entry level position. And as far as I am concerned any company who partakes in shady operations forsaking safety and would hire someone willing to work for nothing, is not a company I would ever consider working for.

My "bargaining room" is not that I can fly an airplane as well as the next pilot, but the fact I can do the "rest" of the job better than anyone else.

You are hired to be a pilot, there is no "rest" of the job. You show up, fly a plane from point A to point B safely. That's it.

EVERY regional showed that they are willing to sacrifice safety when the hiring boom started two years ago. Even reputable outfits were hiring people with 400/25.

The truth is that pilots eat their young. I stole that quote from someone on here. Everyone will step on each other to get to the top, including lowballing themselves.
 
You are hired to be a pilot, there is no "rest" of the job. You show up, fly a plane from point A to point B safely. That's it.

EVERY regional showed that they are willing to sacrifice safety when the hiring boom started two years ago. Even reputable outfits were hiring people with 400/25.

The truth is that pilots eat their young. I stole that quote from someone on here. Everyone will step on each other to get to the top, including lowballing themselves.

We have a winner!

What happens when you create an industry filled solely with Type-A personalities? You get a cut-throat-industry, because everyone wants to be king.

The problem is though, is that you don't really get anything more for progressing. A little more money, maybe you get to fly something different (big whoop, work is work). You don't get any more responsibility, you don't interact with the public anymore, and you still miss your kids growing up, yeah pilots!
 
You are hired to be a pilot, there is no "rest" of the job. You show up, fly a plane from point A to point B safely. That's it.

Even in the 121 world there is more to it than simply getting on the plane and driving it from A to B. Unless you are in freight that is. Customer service is still pretty important.
 
Even in the 121 world there is more to it than simply getting on the plane and driving it from A to B. Unless you are in freight that is. Customer service is still pretty important.

What customer service, the last time I rode 121 I never saw the pilots, so I couldn't interact with them that way. Customer service is handled by the F/As and the Gate agents for the most part.
 
Even in the 121 world there is more to it than simply getting on the plane and driving it from A to B. Unless you are in freight that is. Customer service is still pretty important.

The last 3 times I have flown on an airline, I never saw the pilots. The cockpit was empty when I boarded, the cockpit was closed when I left.
 
Even in the 121 world there is more to it than simply getting on the plane and driving it from A to B. Unless you are in freight that is. Customer service is still pretty important.

I agree with Wheelsup here. There's a LOT of difference in flying 121 and CFIing. Flying the airplane is a SMALL part of my daily job duties. I'm more likely to get in trouble over some BS policy, procedure or paperwork issue than missing a radio call from ATC.
 
Ok so I was in my usual thinking room worshipping a god that deals with a lot of my crap when I came up with this..... alright, howabout pay based on flight hours (experience), longevity, equipment, seat, etc, all blended together. IE # of total hours. I think it's real feasible if thought through by unions. A guy with 500 hours isn't worth as much as a guy with 1500 hours. Of course you'd have to have the union involved in the hiring guidelines but that could reward guys that come to a company as FOs with a better starting pay. Just a thought:panic:

The flaw in your scheme is that it assumes that all flight hours are equal. Flight hours are a subjective benchmark, that take on meaning only when put into context. I daresay a 500 hour military pilot would disagree with your assessment that a 1500 hour general aviation pilot is "worth more."
 
The flaw in your scheme is that it assumes that all flight hours are equal. Flight hours are a subjective benchmark, that take on meaning only when put into context. I daresay a 500 hour military pilot would disagree with your assessment that a 1500 hour general aviation pilot is "worth more."

Well that's why it wouldn't be the only factor in the pay rate. Although, so what. I don't care if anyone at 500 hours thinks their experience is worth more that's not the point of the payscale. There are a lot of other unfair things in aviation anyways. Can a military guy with 500 hours get hired at the airlines anyways? (for a moment, let's ignore that jetU guys can with less)
 
EXACTLY my point. And when guys are willing to go to work for non-Union carriers for 2/3rds the pay, the SAME thing happens.

It also encourages YOUR management to use whatever tactics they can to lower YOUR payrate to the non-Union level. Need an example? UAL and USAir used the bankruptcy court to drop their narrowbody pay to jetBlue levels.

Now along comes Allegiant and Virgin lowering the bar further. How can they? Because they can get guys to fly the left seat of an MD-80 or an A320 for $95 - $110 an hour.



Glad you agree with him. Because YOU are the guy crowing about how good Allegiant would be for you on another thread. Better rethink your position on one of these threads or the other or else one might think you're a hypocrite.



Thank you for making my point. Now refresh my memory about how great Allegiant would be for you because you'd accept substandard pay to live in LAS. Because the day you accept employment there, YOU are doing the lowballing, my friend.

And here comes Velocipede with his attitude that unions have a morally superior claim to all existing and future airlines and pilot jobs. I would just like to point out that all of his supposedly better union carriers are losing money and furloughing pilots (no doubt due to industry powerhouses like Allegiant and Virgin America running them out of business). Where exactly is a person supposed to get a job that meets with his standards?
 
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