Paying for ATP (loans, Savings, and other stuff)

G

guitarpah

New Member
This is my first post.... Yeah!!!
if you don't care about who I am, skip to the bold print.
Wel some back ground on me:
I'm a 22 yo student at an all male Liberal arts college in the midwest (my school rcoks and is well respected)
I LOVE TO FLY AND LEARN EVERYTHING I CAN ABOUT FLYING
I first flew a plane/flew in a plane when i was 8 (not logged of course) with a family friend, said friend later crashed after loosing all tail control surfaces in his cessna... he crash landed and hasn't flown since. He walked away from the crash
BUT I AM STILL ALL ABOUT IT!
tried the millitary route but my political views don't gel with most people in the Navy/Marines (no AF cuz i would need laser surgery and they dont accept that) plus the millitary where i wanna be. However is still have great respect for our troops.
I have wonderful reflexes, an good ad judging distance, speed, de/acceleration, and have great hand eye cord. (halo champ!)
I get very good grade and am a quick learned
I'm a PSYCH/RELIGION student, I didn't go to a AERO university because i also had ambitions of being a doctor (All chemistry sucks except for practical) plus i love learning, and there where so many things I wanted to study. I'm a debate super star!:rawk:

any ways, I have been trolling around this site for months now and i finally got my right to post.

My question is, i already have alot of student loans, so i wanna finance as little as possible, (1)but how have other ATP students/ grads paid for their flight school?

My family is very rich but they made it from scratch, they want me to do the same, and i love them for it.

(2) Has working a MINDNUMBING well paying job after college, living on nickels and dimes to save up for it worked for anybody

Still, i'm probably gonna have to get some loans to cover some of it
(3) Has paying off loans when your making <20k a year as a CFI caused any problems for any one? if so please relate your story! thanks


Living cab be costly so i wanna do ATP over other schools to get it done in time.

I cant express how greatful I am that this forum exists. You guys have provided me with information that is of great value to me and has helped me evaluate my future.... Thankyou all from the bottom of my heart:nana2:
 
Here's my advice. You may not like it, but just my two cents. The quick fast route isn't always the best. (I'm not speaking about ATP as a flight school, I'm speaking in regard to finance.) You already have student loans, and you said you want to finance ATP as little as possible. If you really want to finance as little as possible then do just that, by saving the money.

I think you can find several jobs out of college that aren't mindnumbing. Explore some of your other interests. I have a degree in psychology as well, and I was recently hired into the financial services industry, so you can find a well paying job out there. You just have to look.

As far as paying off student loans and flight training loans on less than 20k a year is going to extremely tough. I don't know that I would want to hear any of those stories...

Remember, there are other options besides ATP. Work another job while paying for your ratings slowly (debt free) over time. It will take longer, but you will only have a student loan then. I considered doing my training at ATP as well and I think ATP is a quality school that offers a great way to train. But there are other options to consider as well.

Like I said, you may not like the advice, just my humble opinion. BTW, I'm doing it the way I just described. I'm working another job while paying for my ratings as I go. Something to consider. Good luck.
 
NO.... i dig all advice

Please, i consider all (well maybe not all) post on this forum to be valuable. your right, i don't wanna rush into it. And i know student loans are are a B*tch! i'm pretty sure that i'll do at least my PPL slowly. Thanks for the advice.

to everyone else, keep it coming

Much luv
Paul
 
well i dont know my plans for the future, i advise you not to take out a loan, i did that and im looking at payemts of about 400 bucks a month till i dont know how long, and i still dont have all my ratings, i really got f***** over, but now im working part time on the ramp for united while im going to school and getting the rest of my cfi ratings, hey it might take me a while to do, but at least im very slowly saving up money so i can pay off my loans and finish flight training.
 
The cost of the program when I started was $35,000 plus examiners fees for each flight test which amounted to around $2500. I took out a loan and overborrowed on it to help subsidize myself when I was flight instructing. There was a "loan fee" and interest that built on the principal during my training that amounted to an additional $5000 when I finally started making payments. So total you could say my flight training cost me $42,500.

Now let's take my CFI salary which was $1000 grossed a month. You could be making more or less depending on the employer you work for. Taking taxes into account I took home $800 a month. $400 was allocated towards rent/utilities which was a studio apartment I split with another instructor (Chicago is high dollar). $200 a month was spent on food/household goods. Roughly $190 was spent on gasoline/tolls/auto insurance. So right there I had $10 left over each month to cover a $440 loan repayment when it finally kicked in 6 months after I started flight instructing. Fun times

Now let's take my 1st year commuter pilot salary which is $1180 take home a month after taxes and medical/vision/dental deductions. $220 a month for crashpad rent/utilities (3 guys in a one floor house - I sleep in the living room), $90 in gasoline/insurance since I live 5 minutes from the airport, $200 in food/household goods, and $440 for the loan repayment. That leaves roughly $200 a month for whatever. It's liveable but not what I would call enjoyable at the moment.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions from my story.
 
GaTechKid said:
Now let's take my 1st year commuter pilot salary which is $1180 take home a month after taxes and medical/vision/dental deductions.
Click to expand...


Good lord, man. Where are you flying? My firstest gig after ATP paid that much... to teach GROUND SCHOOL, then I made flight pay and desk chair ballast pay on top of that. My first year as a "commuter pilot" paid significantly more than twice that number. Net income, I know.

Incidentally, my medical/dental/vision costs me about half of my ALPA dues: 16.44 a paycheck. Where do you work?
 
SIG

If you dont mind saying where u work? I also have a question.... I know what most of the commuters pay a 1st year F/O's, but what can you expect each month after some OT etc... (just an average).
Thanks a lot!
 
Sig said:
Good lord, man. Where are you flying? My firstest gig after ATP paid that much... to teach GROUND SCHOOL, then I made flight pay and desk chair ballast pay on top of that. My first year as a "commuter pilot" paid significantly more than twice that number. Net income, I know.

Incidentally, my medical/dental/vision costs me about half of my ALPA dues: 16.44 a paycheck. Where do you work?
Click to expand...

I use the term "commuter pilot" because I fly a Saab 340 for Colgan from JHW-BFD-PIT every day. I'm not flying a jet from MSP-IAH or ATL-STL like most regional airlines. The dollar figures I quoted ya'll are from $21 per hour on a guarantee of 75 hours a month. Normally we only do out-and-backs each day so we do not get per diem. Medical/Dental/Vision costs roughly $80 per month. Who do you work for?
 
GaTechKid said:
I use the term "commuter pilot" because I fly a Saab 340 for Colgan from JHW-BFD-PIT every day. I'm not flying a jet from MSP-IAH or ATL-STL like most regional airlines. The dollar figures I quoted ya'll are from $21 per hour on a guarantee of 75 hours a month. Normally we only do out-and-backs each day so we do not get per diem. Medical/Dental/Vision costs roughly $80 per month. Who do you work for?
Click to expand...

I meant absolutely no harm with the word commuter- I am a commuter pilot! I get a giggle out of hearing a grizzled old fart having to suffer the indignity of following "that commuter" out of the ramp in PHL...

I fly a turboprop in the northeast as well. I'm Dash trash for Piedmont, and love every second of it. 8 leg days aren't uncommon.

Per diem is a large chunk of cheddar when you get 360 hrs TAFB. It was very noticeable when I bid an all out and back line in December. Home every night, yes- but they were all 13.5 hour duty days... add in the 40 minute drive each way, and it gets OLD. We have an extreme pilot utility situation here- they fly living heck out of us so we can have 14+ day off lines with 90 hours in them. I typically make about 100 hours a month, and just shy of 30 bucks an hour.

Having said that, many of our reserve FOs are getting HOSED. If you can't break guarantee (72), you're broke.

You'll be a skipper lonnnnnngggg before I will, too.
 
JBUCREW said:
SIG

If you dont mind saying where u work? I also have a question.... I know what most of the commuters pay a 1st year F/O's, but what can you expect each month after some OT etc... (just an average).
Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...

It's all in the strength of your contract. If you go somewhere, make sure the money follows the abuse. Allegheny had some provisions in their contract prior to the merge with us (PDT)- you could easily get a 150 hour pay credit month with a little handle jiggling with schedules.

Per hour pay is crap; how your contract protects you is where it's at. Cancellation pay? Duty or trip rigs? Displacement pay? Extension pay (certain provisions)? Sick pay? Vacation? Block or better, over guarantee?

Uhh, I didn't answer your question.

The only pay stubs I have right here were for Dec 30th-1780.01 net, and Jan 13th: 1145.78 net. The Jan 30th paycheck was weak- no per diem in Dec from an all out and back line and a weak credit line at that, something around 1300 net. Net is net-ALPA's share, medical/dental/vision insurance, taxes, and uniform deduction (like 10 bucks a paycheck) are already yanked. The Dec 30th check had some pretty high credit time on it due to November's atrocious weather. I also was displaced from a trip so the CA could do line training for a newhire, I picked up the phone and grabbed a trip on top of it because of the holiday (the juniormost reserve didn't want to work, so I did) and got double pay for that...
 
guitarpah said:
My family is very rich but they made it from scratch, they want me to do the same, and i love them for it.
Click to expand...

If getting rich is your goal, you may wanna look at doing something else.. :)
 
Welcome Guitarpah,
No one has the magic answer other than loans for flight schools. Saving doesn't seem to be an answer for you since you will already be paying back the other loans. If I were you I would ask your parents. They may have made it the hard way and there is much to be respected for them to ask the same of you. Why aren't they paying for your college education? I have a different view on parents and their responsibility for helping children for education.

I have to pull the grammar/spelling police card too. It seems that english might be your second language. I suggest you study as much as you can to get up to speed in the subject. It will benefit you greatly later on. What year of college are you in?
 
You could always go work for Regions.. :)

We get $17/hour (or $18) depending on your total time when hired.. :) Then you get $28 as a Captain until you die or quit.. Pay is frooozen..

We work 13 hour duty days all the time, 8 leg days are the norm..

However, we upgrade in anywhere from 10-12 months..

It's a tough choice.. money now, qol now or money later, qol later..

I went the money/qol later route..

I have a theory, which not every one subscribes to, but it is my own.. :D
 
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