Pattern alltitude?

A

Arnie7781

Well-Known Member
I'm working on my instrument rating with about 85 tt and I've got a new instructor that INSISTS on flying pattern altitude @ 1000 ft msl. The problem is that the field elevation is 430ft.

I'm used to flying the pattern at 800-1000ft AGL. I don't feel comfortable this low and it's effecting my landings and shaking my confidence by taking me out of my normal progressions.

So, what's the deal? Am I just being a baby, or are any of you guys instructed to fly patterns below 800ft agl?
 
Arnie7781 said:
I'm working on my instrument rating with about 85 tt and I've got a new instructor that INSISTS on flying pattern altitude @ 1000 ft msl. The problem is that the field elevation is 430ft.

I'm used to flying the pattern at 800-1000ft AGL. I don't feel comfortable this low and it's effecting my landings and shaking my confidence by taking me out of my normal progressions.

So, what's the deal? Am I just being a baby, or are any of you guys instructed to fly patterns below 800ft agl?
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You're PIC, you do what you feel is right.Tell your instructor this is how you are going to fly the pattern, If he doesnt like it then to bad for him. Its that simple. 1000 MSL would work too well for ya here.
 
He's probably doing that in order to show you what a circling approach feels like. It's better to be comfortable doing it now, than when you're circling at 1 mile vis.
 
That makes no sense. A circling approach is flown at circling mins which could be 600 as he is doing in this case or it could be any other number. I have seen approaches cirlcle as low as 345 feet. Also, a circling approach would be done off of an instrument approach. This sounds like he is just cruising around the pattern at this altitude.
 
True, circles are at multiple altitudes, but someone who's expressed that "I don't feel comfortable this low and it's effecting my landings and shaking my confidence by taking me out of my normal progressions" would benefit from more experience at a lower pattern altitude. Only doing it at the end of an approach adds many more things to be thinking about when the problem could simply be not liking low.

The guy could also just be crazy, there's a few of them around.
 
averyrm said:
He's probably doing that in order to show you what a circling approach feels like. It's better to be comfortable doing it now, than when you're circling at 1 mile vis.
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That may be close, but the circling altitude is going to change depending on the approach that you arre flying and the filed where you are landing. If he wants to get you used to circling approaches, then you should do just that. A circling approach at the circling altitude. Don't go above it, because you'll be in the clouds again, don't go below it until the safe landing can be assured.
 
Ask the instructor WHY he wants you to fly it at that height. If it is because he wants you to practice flying the pattern at the circling approach height than fly it AT that height, not higher or lower, but AT that height. If it is for another reason have him explain it.

Let us know what he says!

Another VERY important point. There are no babys in aviation. If you feel uncomfortable doing something, NO problem whatsoever with that. Don't do it if it makes you feel uncomfortable, no matter what anyone else says!
 
Have to agree with some previous posts. You're the PIC.. you make the call. Also, I'd never teach a circle to land in pattern work. If you want to teach a circle to land, fly one and then circle to land. If you're doing general pattern work this is not only stupid, its unsafe. The AIM has clearly spelled out traffic pattern ops. Collision aviodance and engine out operations are all somthing to consider when not complying the the recommendations of the AIM.

I'd tell your instructor to fly it as published or 1000' AGL or get lost.
 
Arnie7781 said:
I'm working on my instrument rating with about 85 tt and I've got a new instructor that INSISTS on flying pattern altitude @ 1000 ft msl. The problem is that the field elevation is 430ft.

I'm used to flying the pattern at 800-1000ft AGL. I don't feel comfortable this low and it's effecting my landings and shaking my confidence by taking me out of my normal progressions.

So, what's the deal? Am I just being a baby, or are any of you guys instructed to fly patterns below 800ft agl?
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Pattern is usually at least 1000 AGL. Don't discount the possibility that your CFI is a little 'out to lunch'
 
I got my private at 82J in Pensacola. The pattern is 500' above ground level because of controlled airspace above it. No big deal. You oughta be able to land from any reasonable traffic pattern altitude.

Quit being a baby. :)
 
wow this is a little scary. i was going to make a thread tonight about what height to fly the traffic pattern.

well here it is. ive gathered thats its about 1000 AGL?
 
boeing 777-300 said:
wow this is a little scary. i was going to make a thread tonight about what height to fly the traffic pattern.

well here it is. ive gathered thats its about 1000 AGL?
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"c. It is recommended that airplanes observe a 1,000-foot above ground level (AGL) traffic pattern altitude. Large and turbine powered airplanes should enter the traffic pattern at an altitude of 1,500 feet AGL or 500 feet above the established pattern altitude. A pilot may vary the size of the traffic pattern depending on the aircraft's performance characteristics."

But you should check the FD.
 
Arnie7781 said:
I'm working on my instrument rating with about 85 tt and I've got a new instructor that INSISTS on flying pattern altitude @ 1000 ft msl. The problem is that the field elevation is 430ft.

I'm used to flying the pattern at 800-1000ft AGL. I don't feel comfortable this low and it's effecting my landings and shaking my confidence by taking me out of my normal progressions.

So, what's the deal? Am I just being a baby, or are any of you guys instructed to fly patterns below 800ft agl?
Click to expand...
Another thing may be, and this would be hard to believe, is that he made it all the way to CFI thinking the recommended TPA is 1000' MSL instead of AGL.
 
BrianNC said:
Another thing may be, and this would be hard to believe, is that he made it all the way to CFI thinking the recommended TPA is 1000' MSL instead of AGL.
Click to expand...

Yet another problem with flight schools being based in South Florida:)
 
averyrm said:
He's probably doing that in order to show you what a circling approach feels like. It's better to be comfortable doing it now, than when you're circling at 1 mile vis.
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Armie, is that what your CFI said when you asked him =why= you were flying the pattern at 600 AGL?

You did ask didn't you? If not, that's your fault.

He did answer, didn't he? If he didn't, that doesn't bode well for your training.
 
If he's having you fly traffic patterns that low to "get the feel of a circling approach," then that's dead wrong and dangerous. What if someone enters the pattern at the correct height in a Piper? They probably won't see you.

Now, if you're doing a circle to land instrument approach, then it's kosher to stay at the MDA during the circle. One of the approaches used a LOT in the airport I instructed at was a circling approach, but if there is other traffic in the pattern you have GOT to communicate where you are and what you're doing. I've seen too many people declare "circle to land" and never call downwind, base or final at that airport and get in near hit situations.
 
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