Part 91 "Holding Out" rule for non passenger operations

J777Fly

Well-Known Member
I know that a Commercial pilot cannot hold out (offer plane/pilot/price) for passenger carrying for compensation.

But can a Commercial pilot offer a plane/pilot/price package for an aerial photography service? Or for any of the following Part 91 operations;

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Crop Dusting [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Banner Towing [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Fire fighting[/FONT]

As these operations do not offer passenger carrying services, I was wondering if the same "Holding Out" rule applies to them as well.

:confused:
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
You're only a common carrier if you are (1) holding out of a willingness to (2) transport persons or property (3) from place to place (4) for compensation. None of your examples meet all four criteria, specifically #2, so the answer is no that rule does not apply and yes a pilot could offer those services as a package. (IMHO)
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
I know that a Commercial pilot cannot hold out (offer plane/pilot/price) for passenger carrying for compensation.

But can a Commercial pilot offer a plane/pilot/price package for an aerial photography service? Or for any of the following Part 91 operations;

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Crop Dusting [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Banner Towing [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Fire fighting[/FONT]

As these operations do not offer passenger carrying services, I was wondering if the same "Holding Out" rule applies to them as well.

:confused:
"Holding out" is not illegal. Period. It's so tied in with the 135 issue that many people think it's some bad thing to do, but it's not.

"Holding our" just means that you have, in some way, let people know that you are available for hire. That's all. It's a way of separating purely private operations from those that are "public" (even in a limited way).

Where it comes into play for us is like this: we are not permitted to let the "public" know that we are available for things such as transporting people and property from point to point for hire. That's not because it's a bad thing to "hold out"; it's because it's a bad thing to engage in the public transportation of people and property from point to point for hire. "Holding out" just helps to establish the "public" part.

That is a long way of saying that there is absolutely nothing wrong with "holding out" something that you =are= allowed to do for the public. CFIs are allowed to "hold out" their availability for flight instruction. Commercial pilots are allowed to fill out job applications, holding out their availability to fly for an employer. And commercial pilots are allowed to "hold out" their availability to do the activities they are allowed to do for the public under the 119 exemptions to the need for an operating certificate.
 

J777Fly

Well-Known Member
So I take it you can advertise your services (pilot/Plane/price package) for aerial work such as aerial photography, banner towing or ag flying, without the need for some type of air transport operators certificate?!
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
So I take it you can advertise your services (pilot/Plane/price package) for aerial work such as aerial photography, banner towing or ag flying, without the need for some type of air transport operators certificate?!
Yes, but... (also, if that "UK" means United Kingdom, their rules might be very different.)

The "but...". There are some FAR exceptions to some of the exceptions. For example, the old exception for local tours has changed to require a LOA. And there may be state laws or airport minimum standards that need to be complied with for running a business like the one you are contemplating.

The FAR is not the only set of rules and laws that apply to our flying.

Speak to an aviation/business attorney if you are going to start an aviation business.
 
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