Pan Am students whine too much!

Pan Am students complain way too much. Having graduated from a 4-year university I can say that a few things must be understood. They are as follows:
1) Don't expect Pan Am to hold your hand as if you are a lost 5-year old. University administrators and professors don't do it so why should Pan Am?
2) Yes, you have to put forth some effort! Surprising as it may seem, nobody is going to spoon feed you this stuff. What does that mean? Well, first of all, you'll get out of this what you put into it.
3) If you seem like just a dollar sign to Pan Am, it's because you are. Like I already said, they are not here to hold your little hand! Grow up, study like you are supposed to, show up for your flights and that's it. Do you think most college professors care about their students? Most of them could care less how you do in their class.

More enlightening reality to come....
Having graduated from a 4-year university I can say that a few things must be understood. They are as follows:

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I went to Pan Am, did you? If you didn’t, you have no right to post anything related to how students complain about being shafted by Pan Am. Oh, you graduated from a 4-year university so that makes you the new counselor for jetcareer users who haven’t graduated from a 4-year university. I don't think Doug has officially given that title to anyone yet, so you’re in luck. I hope you will have a weekly discussion on how we can be successful in our endeavors. I did need that push, and now I will put forth more effort all thanks to you. Those are some big words for a fist post! Please keep enlightening us; after all, you are qualified since you did go to a 4-year university.
where'd that come from? oh, congrats on the 4-year by the way...those are real hard to come by now a days. anyway, you've never been there so you don't really understand what people have to say about it, good or bad. research a little before you assume to understand, i figure a 4-year would at least make you that humble.
Ahhhhhhhh, but you see? I DO go to Pan Am. I started my training here at Pan Am and I am starting my CFI very shortly. What qualifies me to talk about people who defame Pan Am? The fact that I hear the things people say. The fact that I have known some of the people that have hated Pan Am and gone over to the Aviator (as an example) for their training (claiming to have found gold on the other side of the road). The fact is, you need only one thing to succeed. Yourself. Stop relying on other people. Harness a little of that negative energy and put it towards helping you achieve your goals. Is Pan Am infallible? Of course not. What flight school is perfect? Bottom line, don't expect Pan Am to get you where ever it is you want to go.

Oh, and the four year thing? I'm not trying to slam people who didn't go to college. Afterall, a bachelors degree these days is like having an extra button on your shirt. Nobody really cares about it until all the other buttons fall off. I was addressing the fact that I learned (in college) if you want to be successful you have got to stop relying on your instructors and administrators (and who ever else you think cares about you) and rely on yourself. When it comes down to it, you are probably one of only a few people who care. I know that sounds depressing but keep that in mind and you won't find yourself outraged and unable to learn because of all the small stuff.

Until next time,

(After applying myself and accepting the little nuances I am looking forward to finishing 3 months ahead of the proposed schedule and well under budget. Hey, I read so many posts saying this wasn't possible...Hmmmmmmmmmmm.)
Wow, that’s great ACE. What’s funny is that you have mentioned nothing that really proves you are a student at Pan Am and at what location.
It's nice too hear that because of your four degree, you possess insights that other people could never fathom. That is an excellent example of pretentious and arrogant attitude that administratives at Pan Am are known for.
Thats EXACTLY what I was thinking...he has GOT to be in admin. with an attitude like that. There is no chance he is a student. Again, people need to look at ALL the flight school forums and compare them. The atmosphere in Pan Am's is quite a bit different than in the other forums....that is...its MOSTLY NEGATIVE !!!! You sure don't see the same amount of negative statements in the other forums...something is going on at Pan Am and it isn't good. Maybe they shouldn't try to weed out their students (customers), they should weed out the bad admin. and let that school achieve the potential that it has.
Maybe the real reason Pan Am students (customers) whine is because they are not satisfied customers...a smart business would strive for customer satisfaction in order to make their business and profits grow. Pan Am's profits grow because they steal from their customers. I tried to stay out of this thread but...well, you know the rest.
Inquisitive minds want to know (because I have to prove I'm a student) which campus I'm attending. I am at the Pan Am Fort Pierce campus (one thing I'm sure we can agree on is that Fort Pierce is the epitome of Trashville USA). What I'd like to know is what makes Pan Am any different than XYZ University? Everyone is begging for customer service as if Pan Am is some kind of restaurant. I didn't see tip jars at the front desk. Just like I don't remember tipping my professors and administrators in college. Fact is, I never gave their customer service skills any thought. If I had, I would probably still be on an endless search for a "perfect" university.

Should Pan Am weed out students? Sure, why not? Many intro level courses in college are simply weed out courses. A class of 500 students, 1 professor who is never avialable for 1 on 1, and a usless TA. Exams that cover 8 chapters of material (90% of which was never covered in class). What would you call this? Didn't you ever notice that the second semester of a course has barely half the number of students as the first? It's called weed out.

If you dropped out of college would you expect a phone call the next morning from the dean asking you how they can improve their school? Yeah right! You would be lucky to get a refund (and that's only if you withdraw early...staying for the entire semester and then deciding you were cheated is tough luck for you and money in the school's pocket). The only contact you'll get will be a nice little statement in the mail telling you how much you've contributed to the staff salaries.

Just smile and wave...

Well, Joe Blow...I'm at the Fort Pierce campus. There are 3 vending machines in the lunchroom (1 coke manchine, 1 snack machine, and 1 machine with nasty sandwiches and tuna salad I wouldn't touch). The coffee machine in the lunchroom is out of order (has been for weeks). I can't remember how many spaces are in the student parking lot and I always forget how to spell Jeremy's last name. Is it Desareaux? Doruseaux? I don't know. Ok, you've proved your point. There are some things I don't know about Pan Am Fort Pierce. One thing I do know is that I'm a student there.

No, I'm not going to go count the number of spaces in the parking lot. I am curious though.
You can't really comapre Pan Am to a "normal" college. First off, a "normal" college doesn't make you sign a training contract and make you cough up a $500.00 deposit and pay for ALL classes up front. At a college, you pay semester to semester. Secondly, they don't charge you extra money for individual missed classes. Also, universities don't charge you a huge sum of money if you decide to leave and then keep your money to collect interest on it.
I do agree that if you don't put forth the effort you won't get anything out of it, but that is true with almost anything you do in life. You have to study to do well. Actually, in ground school, the students ARE spoon fed the info. It comes right out of the text and the Gliem. Really, I don't think they would have such a high pass rate of their writtens if the actual tests were made up by the instructors instead of being test questions right out of the Gliem.

"Everyone is begging for customer service as if Pan Am is some kind of restaurant. I didn't see tip jars at the front desk."

Customer service is a basic part of any sucessful business, Pan Am's tip jar is pre-filled with overinflated tuition prices and charging students with rediculous fees.
It may have changed but Pan Am didn't even offer a tutor. At least most colleges offer that, some charge for their services and some do not.
Also, in college, at the end of each semester, we ARE given a questionaire on how the school can improve itself and the students have a chance to evaluate the professor...I never saw anything like that at Pan Am.
Financially, I don't see how you can compare a "trade school" such as Pan Am to a college. There are just too many variables to draw a linear conclusion.
Pan Am rips off its students (customers). The customers complain about it, if thats what you want to call whining, then so be it.
Hey think,
your mother must be proud! FOUR YEARS! nobody at pan am has that! So during your 4 YEARS you must have taken a stats class or two. What is the liklihood, that in the normal population, you know including 95%, whiners tend to choose pan am? Or maybe, now this may be a stretch, Pan am attracts the same type of people that go to other schools, but maybe just maybe there are valid complaints about this place.

I know this is radical but after all, you do have FOUR YEARS

Good luck with that!

On a positive note, Comair is hiring from Pan Am
What is the liklihood, that in the normal population, you know including 95%, whiners tend to choose pan am?

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Wow! What language is that? Comma, splice,. I'm afraid I don't understand what it is you are trying to say. Maybe Indiana Jones could translate. I couldn't even learn that in four years. You win.
If you don't like it leave! That is what I did. I find that Pan Am actually holds students back and that falls under one issue why I left. I left after finishing route and if I would have stayed, it would have taken me another 6-7 months to finish. I compared those who are in the top percentile of my class with the bottom percentile on how fast their training was going. I was hanging in there with those who where on top. To finish my commercial and CFI ratings, I decided to attend ATP. I finished my ratings within four weeks while others that were in my class are still getting reamed up the you-know-what from Pan Am. There are many ways that Pan Am makes extra money from students…no-shows, ACE, CRM, pre and post briefings, just to name a few. If no one knows, students don’t get the briefing they pay for. Every post that I have made regarding Pan Am has been honest and straight forward from what I have experienced, what other students around me have experienced, and how administration treats their clients-I have never stretched the truth in anyway. The posts that I read from other users are the same BS that I have witnessed first hand. Now those that are interested in attending Pan Am go for it. You will receive excellent training, fly new aircraft, and have use of a well-kept facility. But, when I spend $50k plus as a student, I expect to be treated with respect and have a say in the way my training goes. Anyone who has been at Pan Am for more than a month may have experienced the attitude...if you don't like it then leave. I know some one who was told that by Boles, the chief flight instructor, for voicing his concerns regarding the training he was receiving from his flight instructor. I know of other instances; one where some planes were grounded for a day or two, I forget the exact details, and Pan Am made students fly three activities and even on their days off so they could recoup the money they didn't receive for those days. It is a business, but when one spends the kind of money needed to attend a school like Pan Am, customer satisfaction should be #1 priority. If I go to a restaurant, receive awful service and crappy food, I will inform the manager of my dissatisfaction. I have done this a few times as I’m sure some of you may have done before, not to abuse it, and the manager took care of the problem. If the food is bad, I simply don’t eat there again. Training should be fun and challenging at the same time; Pan Am takes the fun out of the whole process along with your money. I never whined or complained of what was going on around me or to me; I saw others do so with no success. I did what was beneficial to me then left. By leaving and paying them 10% of what was left over on my account, I saved money, time, and big headaches. Pan Am does not guarantee jobs to those who finish their program; if they don’t like you, they will not hire you. It is a business and they like to make money. That is why they don’t kick people out of their program for not keeping pace. There are many instructors and students who have degrees at Pan Am including myself. Having or not having a degree is beside the point.
We all have one thing in common. We all want to be very competent pilots. You have to learn that. The way people learn coincides with their environment. If Pan Am isn't a good environment......there ya go.
Hey, what college did you go to? They should have taught you that. Better yet, that's a lot of common sense!!!!!!!!
P.S. - I'm not harpin' against those that feel attacked because of this post, but you gotta listen to the truth. Pan Am has an overall bad vibe among the students, instructors, and administrators. I could pick up on that just from the tour.
Enough said......I don't want to be considered a whiner!!!!!!!!
When I toured Pan Am in 2001 they didn’t have as many students as they do now nor the reputation they have for treating their students the way they do; furthermore, I was unaware of this web site, so I couldn’t get any advise about the school. Pan Am from the outside looks great; it’s after one enrolls that the can of worms is opened.
This post is in response to your comment about flying someone 3 times a day if one of their flights is cancelled. They don't do this for the money. The student is going to fly the mission regardless of when it happens. The reason why they have a person fly 3 times the following day is to make up for lost time. Pan Am advertises an accelerated program. In order to keep with that reputation they want to keep you on a timeline. If you were to get cancelled for weather, maintenance or whatever, that sets you back time wise. They want you to stay on track. Just because someone flies 3 times in one day doesn't put any more money in Pan Am's bank account.
I need a shovel for all the bs u just wrote right there. When I was there I flew 3 times -- a week. Basically, my a** still hurts from that school.
Ha seriously though if students are flying 3 times a week there, why don't the finish up months before part 61 FBOs instead of months after?

And why the need to make up for lost time? Lost time from what?