Overpaid Button-Pushers

C

cime_sp

Well-Known Member
So, the other day I only have 1 round trip. Should be an easy day right??? On the first leg I land in Peoria, IL (spelling?) in a crosswind of 20kts gusting to 34 because the other runway was closed due to construction. Did I mention that the only approach available was the NDB? Oh well, not too bad.

The second leg was back to Atlanta and as we got closer we were in the middle of thunderstorms with LOTS of lightning. The RJ is a lightning magnet as well!!! Top that off with icing conditions and the fact that we were low on fuel because of stronger than expected headwinds, and for extra measure throw in the little detail that it was at night. The field was forecast to be VFR so we did not have any extra fuel...The cell decided to sit right over the top of the final approach fix and cause havock with the arrivals. The controller decided to be extra pushy as well and continually try to turn us into the cell. It took us very STERNLY telling him repeatedly that we were unable and would only turn in 4-5 miles when clear of the cell to get him to listen. In the end it all worked out and everybody made it there safely, but the pucker-factor was definately high.

And people think all we do is sit up there and read the newspaper...overpaid button-pushers right???
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And people think all we do is sit up there and read the newspaper...

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Well, if you're really good you can do all that while reading the paper.
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And people think all we do is sit up there and read the newspaper...

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Well, if you're really good you can do all that while reading the paper.
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I'm more impressed with the fact that they can read the newspaper while they're asleep.
 
Funny to hear the RJ is a lightening magnet, same with my plane. The other day, was leading a rare daytime 4-ship. We'll sometimes do this in order to expedite getting in and out of terminal airspace. We then separate entering our MOA going 4 different directions and altitudes in order to hit one target in 4 places from 4 different directions, all getting bomb impact within +/- 1 second, zero seconds if done right. Following that we rejoin on the flight leader for the return. This time, I had the mission commander and flight lead gig. WX at the field was supposedly 3 miles with 1500 ceiling and sky partially obscured with haze. I swear tower looked south and saw a point 1.5 miles away, looked north and saw the same, and called it 3 miles.

Takeoff was 4 on the runway lineup, with 1/2/3 in echelon and 4 in the slot. 20 second instrument-trail departure to rejoin above the WX was uneventful, as was getting 70 miles out to the overwater MOA. Recovery was where it got interesting. Leaving the MOA, I rejoined everyone to route-finger four, and sent number 4 to check ATIS. He comes back with the WX which now said 3.5 miles viz and sky partially obscured. Not too bad. We're fat on fuel, and changing to approach freq I hear other planes calling for approaches and getting sent to the marshal stack at the IAF. I request descent to initial for the overhead break, expecting to be told to go back to smoking whatever it was I was smoking, and expect flight breakup for a approaches. Surprisingly, approach approves the request, giving us "altitude restrictions deleted, to 5 miles" about 40 miles out. Cool. Now, keep in mind that of the other 3 pilots in the formation, #3 and #4 are relatively new and come from C-model Eagle background, while #2 comes from an F-4 background. 37 miles out, I decide to take the formation into the soup and see where I can get. I also realize that the TACAN is no longer working on my jet, with the CDI just going side to side in the case. I signal to close up the formation with a wing rock, and begin descent into the solid haze below From my map (and from having flown here for a year before), I know where the terrain features are generally, and more importantly, have SA on what's under me and immediately ahead of me. As the altimeter winds through 6,000, vertical viz becomes average, with horizontal viz nearly nada (Korea standard VFR). I take it down to 2,500 and begin cruising up a river to the north when #3 starts calling out terrain nearby....nearby for an air-air guy that never goes low-level mind you (can't they just enjoy their low-level indoctrination they're receiving now?
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)....and he recommends a check turn away form it. I reply with a negative, since a check turn away will make me lose the terrain as a nav point, since I'm keeping between the terrain and the river, and can't climb due to the worse WX above, and can't descend for clearer WX since I need to keep above the straight-in traffic being vectored near us on the 45 entries to join final below us. Following the river up to the bay that sits just south of the runway, I change to tower while giving a wing dip to signal formation change to echelon-right for the western break in the overhead. At at 5 miles, descend to pattern altitude, still not being able to see the runway until just about 3 miles where it starts to break out. Turn to correct the runway alignment, insure the formation is tight and looking good, and pitch out crossing the approach end numbers with 7 second pitchout spacing to uneventful landings.

Ranks up there in the Top 10 of lousiest MVFR flights in my book; just below VFR flying in hard IMC from the past three years of "club med" trips I've been on.

Monsoons are starting in Korea, so we'll see how much flying goes on in the next few months. The fun never ends.....
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What's funny is that I totally understood every word of what you just said.
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I think that classifies me as a dork or something, since I fly an RJ and know what "echlon formation with #4 slot" and "7 second pitchout" means.
 
Heck no! I'll admit that I live aero-vicariously thru MikeD's stories about flying jets and blowing sh*t up!
 
Hey Mike, I ran into one of your former hog mates today. He had some pretty funny stories about you.
 
More than I? So MikeD, Copaman, Joey and I were drinking out in Antelope Estates in PRC one day...
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I'm betting the eagle boyz were thinking you were nucking futs during the approach, only to have you he-man it over the runway!
 
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Hey Mike, I ran into one of your former hog mates today. He had some pretty funny stories about you.

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Oh no......who?
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More than I? So MikeD, Copaman, Joey and I were drinking out in Antelope Estates in PRC one day...
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...wen Jopie pulled up.....
 
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I'm betting the eagle boyz were thinking you were nucking futs during the approach, only to have you he-man it over the runway!

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You should've sat in the debrief. I was getting all sorts of "what the hell were you doing...blah, blah, blah..." I retorted with referring to them as various "weak adjective" names, and suggested that they must have felt safe enough, since they didn't go lost-wingman and break from the formation (since they likely would've been even more lost than when they were in the formation......and alone....
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). If it was so bad, why'd they hang around? I get quibbling for a response........
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I was getting all sorts of "what the hell were you doing...blah, blah, blah..." I retorted with referring to them as various "weak adjective" names, and suggested that they must have felt safe enough, since they didn't go lost-wingman and break from the formation (since they likely would've been even more lost than when they were in the formation......and alone....
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). If it was so bad, why'd they hang around? I get quibbling for a response........
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This reminds me of something I've wondered about before. How is CRM/human factors training addressed in the military? How is it different, or similar to, CRM training for airlines?
 
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This reminds me of something I've wondered about before. How is CRM/human factors training addressed in the military? How is it different, or similar to, CRM training for airlines?

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It's about the same, the exception being that in single-seat jets, you're dealing with CRM from two different aircraft, versus the same cockpit. So communication issue are huge. You have to be on a "wavelength" with the guy you're flying with, since comm brevity is key. In combat, there will be times with complete radio silence, so briefing a good plan and sticking to it, that is....keeping everyone on the same page, is imperative. I briefed this type of recovery as a contingency, the wingmen with little low-level experience though weren't expecting the low-level with viz a little worse than at the field. But, so long as they stayed in formation, and monitored what I was doing when they could (not as easy when flying close formation, since looking away from the plane you're formed up on isn't conducive to living a long life), they could keep a warm fuzzy. But becuse the WX was getting to the point where they had to keep close to me just to not lose sight, they had to set aside a good part of the navigation cross-check and trust where I was going and what I was doing. That's just how it works in this game. So while there are similiarities, there are differences. Regards the debrief......a military debrief is where the mission is reviewed and rank is left at the door. While we seriously debrief what we need to, there's always time for banter back and forth. Like in my debrief, where I put up an "excuses tally board" where I'd mark a hash for each time I felt one of the flight members was whining about something.
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That's mainly to keep some levity in the debrief, but we do seriously reconstruct the mission and find what was done right, done wrong, what could've been improved, answer any questions, clear anything up, measure the flight's individual as well as overall performance, and ultimately debrief all of this back to the original flight objectives to see where we stand.
 
Speaking of IMC formation flying Mike, did you happen to check out that MiG-29 squadron site I posted a link to the other day? I know you've "been there, done that, got the t-shirt", but they have some pretty neat videos on their site. In a couple of them, you get to see the backseater's view off his "periscope." Gotta love the Ruskies simplicity of design. We don't need no stinkin' cameras!
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Speaking of IMC formation flying Mike, did you happen to check out that MiG-29 squadron site I posted a link to the other day? I know you've "been there, done that, got the t-shirt", but they have some pretty neat videos on their site. In a couple of them, you get to see the backseater's view off his "periscope." Gotta love the Ruskies simplicity of design. We don't need no stinkin' cameras!
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Yeah, checked that out and it's some pretty neat stuff on that page. The German AF MiG-29s were cool to see....saw them at Nellis a few years ago when they were taking part in Red Flag. Sad that they were finally taken out of service. Cool videos on the site...
 
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...wen Jopie pulled up.....

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I....I....I..... JennAAAAAAA!
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But becuse the WX was getting to the point where they had to keep close to me just to not lose sight, they had to set aside a good part of the navigation cross-check and trust where I was going and what I was doing.

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Just as an observation, as I had never thought about it, this is why you read of 3 or 4 planes flying in formation all going into the ground or the side of a mountain together. The others are all following the leader in restricted conditions, and if the leader goes, they do too.
 
That's what happened to the Thunderbirds during a training accident back in the 80's I believe.
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That's what happened to the Thunderbirds during a training accident back in the 80's I believe.
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That sounds familiar.
 
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