Overflying 100 hour inspection

hambone

hambone

Well-Known Member
There is 2.1 hours remaining on the tach. I have a 6 hour flight to complete (flight instruction). There is maintenance at Point A. There is no maintenance at Point B. Can I complete the flight thinking that I can overfly the 100 by 10 hours because technically I am bringing the plane back to point A where maintenance can be done?

This is the argument me and a fellow flight instructor are having. I think the answer is no, because then you would always be allowed to overfly the 100 hour inspection, and there would be no point in calling it a 100 hour inspection as it would always be a 110 hour inspection.
 
If you have 100 hour recurring ADs, you cannot overfly those unless explicitly stated in the AD itself. If you fly anything with a fuel injected Lycoming engine, or any of the old-build Cessna singles, you cannot overfly a 100 hour inspection without having an A&P perform and sign off a recurring AD.
 
And if there is no AD, you can overfly it? I just don't get what the point of calling a 100 hour inspection, a 100 hour inspection if you can always overfly it by 10 hours?
 
From what I've heard you can over fly the 100hr mark if no AD's to go to maintenance, and not otherwise. Its more of a "Oh " clause that you over shot and wouldn't be able to make it to the maintenance facility in time. I've also heard that if you fly over the 100 hr then the next 100hr mark is deducted by what you flew... So say you flew 102, after the 100hr inspection you would only have 98hrs till the next inspection. I'm not sure how valid that is but just what I have heard for flight schools (especially 141).
 
hambone said:
And if there is no AD, you can overfly it? I just don't get what the point of calling a 100 hour inspection, a 100 hour inspection if you can always overfly it by 10 hours?
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That's what the reg says, isn't it? Although, don't forget, if you overfly, the next one is due 100 hours from the previous due time, so in reality you could only overfly by 10 hours once.
In practice, I don't know how the FAA views it if you regularly plan on timing out your 100 hour inspections and running over 100 hours on revenue flights back to base. I know our FSDO would probably have a fit over it, although it's a moot point since all our aircraft have 100 hour recurring ADs, which I think you'll find is true of most any aircraft out there.
 
You could only technically get away with that if you had 3+ hours left on the Tach. That way you would be bringing it back for maint. In your senario the 100 inspection will be busted while travelling away from your home airport IE where maint. is perfromed. All of this is MUTE if you have an AD prohibitting overflying the 100 hour.


And a 100 hour inspection is called a 100 hour inspection because the next one will be due 100 hours from the time the last one should have been completed. The 10 hour rule is not something to take advantage of. It is there only to help pilots who have to travel multiple hours for inspections.
 
My personal opinion (not a formal legal one) is the the extra hours are not there so you can plan for a flight that overflies it. If you have 4-hour flight to do with and inspection dues in 3, starting the flight would not buy you the "grace" period.
 
FAR 91.409(b): The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of time in service.

So you'd be able to fly out 2.1 hours, but then you need to be heading back to maintenance base after that point. Your next 100 hour is still due based on the original 100 hour interval so you're not gaining anything, it's just letting you use the full 100 hours before putting it in the shop.
 
As already stated, IF the 100h is required (assuming also no ADs), you can fly ONLY up to 100h for your purposes. After that, you can only exceed the 100h during the flight to a maintenance facility. So, if you can get to B before your 100h runs out, you can do the flight, otherwise no.

Secondly, the 100h usually is NOT required, unless you provide the airplane and the student pays you (for hire). If he/she is member of the club/flight school and rents the airplane from them, he/she is providing the plane, so it's not flown for hire. So, no 100h needed (except for any recurring ADs).

Also, as some have said before, anything exceeding the 100h, is counted against the following 100h inspection. So, no 110h + 100h. Of course, this is only if the inspection is needed.
 
Radu38J said:
As already stated, IF the 100h is required (assuming also no ADs), you can fly ONLY up to 100h for your purposes. After that, you can only exceed the 100h during the flight to a maintenance facility. So, if you can get to B before your 100h runs out, you can do the flight, otherwise no.

Secondly, the 100h usually is NOT required, unless you provide the airplane and the student pays you (for hire). If he/she is member of the club/flight school and rents the airplane from them, he/she is providing the plane, so it's not flown for hire. So, no 100h needed (except for any recurring ADs).

Also, as some have said before, anything exceeding the 100h, is counted against the following 100h inspection. So, no 110h + 100h. Of course, this is only if the inspection is needed.
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If the aircraft is rented for flight instruction a 100 hour is required no matter who is paying for the airplane... Just saying.
 
hambone said:
This is the argument me and a fellow flight instructor are having. I think the answer is no, because then you would always be allowed to overfly the 100 hour inspection, and there would be no point in calling it a 100 hour inspection as it would always be a 110 hour inspection.
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From what I understand you can do the 100hr at 110 hours but then that means the next 100hr is done at 90 hours.
 
Pilotforhire587 said:
If the aircraft is rented for flight instruction a 100 hour is required no matter who is paying for the airplane... Just saying.
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100 hour is only required if the instructor is providing the plane. If the student rents a plane from their buddy or some other business and gets their own freelance instructor, then there's no requirement for a 100 hour.

91.409(b) - ...and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and been approved for return to service

I think we're seeing the layered approach the FAA takes to public safety. If you can source/rent your own plane, then you assume more of the "operator" risks and responsibilities for ensuring the aircraft is airworthy. If some guy walks in off the street to a flight school, they have no knowledge of the aircraft's maintenance and the FAA requires the 100 hour inspections to help ensure public safety.
 
What Rframe said. If the student provides the airplane (chooses, schedules, and pays for directly) then a 100hr is not required, you are still required to do AD's however, and those exist on almost any airplane you will fly, and they usually have no overflight provision, but some may be performed by the pilot.
 
trafficinsight said:
What Rframe said. If the student provides the airplane (chooses, schedules, and pays for directly) then a 100hr is not required, you are still required to do AD's however, and those exist on almost any airplane you will fly, and they usually have no overflight provision, but some may be performed by the pilot.
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I have heard of very few flight schools that give full responsibility for their aircraft to non-soloing student pilots or whose insurance would permit them to. As a result, I have heard of very few flight schools that have attempted to take the position, "we rent to the students directly so we don't need to do 100-hour inspections." Almost all that I am familiar with take the view that "we supply instructors and airplanes and therefore our approved instructors are providing the airplanes."

The FAA has taken the position that a private club member (even a student) is the one providing the airplane so no 100 hour is required. Whether the FAA would take the same position with respect to a commercial flight rental/training operation is an open question. I can only guess at the answer, but FWIW, I wouldn't teach at one that did.
 
trafficinsight said:
What Rframe said. If the student provides the airplane (chooses, schedules, and pays for directly) then a 100hr is not required, you are still required to do AD's however, and those exist on almost any airplane you will fly, and they usually have no overflight provision, but some may be performed by the pilot.
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I see where you are coming from but an aircraft is required to have a 100 hour inspection if it is "for hire" and as I see it, anytime some one pays money to fly an airplane thats registered under a name other than their own the aircraft it for hire.

Kind of relates back to the "is a landing light required for night flight if the plane is used for instruction."

You get into a gray area there that I would not want to push with a Safety Inspector.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I have heard of very few flight schools that give full responsibility for their aircraft to non-soloing student pilots or whose insurance would permit them to. As a result, I have heard of very few flight schools that have attempted to take the position, "we rent to the students directly so we don't need to do 100-hour inspections." Almost all that I am familiar with take the view that "we supply instructors and airplanes and therefore our approved instructors are providing the airplanes."

The FAA has taken the position that a private club member (even a student) is the one providing the airplane so no 100 hour is required. Whether the FAA would take the same position with respect to a commercial flight rental/training operation is an open question. I can only guess at the answer, but FWIW, I wouldn't teach at one that did.
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I suppose I consider "flight school" to mean a business that rents airplanes, sometimes to student pilots. I don't know about your insurance, but ours could care less about the student's qualifications since an instructor will be with them.

We do 100hr inspections because they just make good sense, but sometimes we will do AD's and let the airplane overfly it to get through a weekend. No one has ever had a problem with that.
 
Why aren't there any FAA inspectors nerdy enough to get a JC handle and start posting on this board, especially to help us in scenarios like this?
 
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