# Odd?

#### Lowlevel

##### Heehee.. Member
This comes from a DH FA, happened on a Freedom flight today at JFK:
Pax were boarded up and bags were loaded. Capt. called gate agent to remove 5 pax for weight and balance purposes (overweight). About 10 minutes more passed when the FO ran outside the plane, to the cargo compartment. He opened the cargo compartment and retrieved 2 pink tag carry on bags. He then brought them into the cabin and strapped them down in two of the empty seats. The captain then told the passengers on board that the bags were placed there for weight and balance purposes.

My question is: Since a carry on is counted as 20 lbs, was the weight and balance that critical that 40 lbs. made a difference?? And exactly how is this shown on a weight and balance form? A child is 80 Lbs. so did they count it as 1/2 a child? Or was it shown at all? Hmmmmm? I'm confused....

I'm going by weights that we use, not sure if children at MJ are only 20 lbs.
Or do they have an index for each row and weight posibility?

#### Seggy

##### Well-Known Member
The only thing odd and stupid is how the FAA has separate and ludicrous weight and balance programs for different airplanes for different airlines.

At my airline passengers weigh different depending which mainline partner they are flying.

#### JaceTheAce

##### Well-Known Member
The only thing odd and stupid is how the FAA has separate and ludicrous weight and balance programs for different airplanes for different airlines.

That's because people who ride on Piedmont planes are statistically heavier than those who ride on Skywest planes.

#### wantfrieswiththat

##### Well-Known Member
Ding.... same response as above. Obviously don't know the exact circumstances, but common sense can make it work, you think?

#### dakovich

##### Well-Known Member
not to sound naive, but whats the ruling on straping luggage into a pax seat? I was under the impression it was a no-no.

#### dakovich

##### Well-Known Member
oh, and I also forgot...FREEDOM!!!

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#### OldTownPilot

##### Well-Known Member
not to sound naive, but whats the ruling on straping luggage into a pax seat? I was under the impression it was a no-no.

Nope, It can be done, however there were a bunch of rules associated with it. The one that I remember is that you cant have a bag in the aisle seat and a passenger in the window seat.

#### Seggy

##### Well-Known Member
...or in an emergency exit row

#### Lowlevel

##### Heehee.. Member
oh, and I also forgot...FREEDOM!!!

FA texted me with questions about it. She was kinda scared that the weight and balance was that critical (40 lbs.) and was wondering if the plane would even get off the ground with all the confusion of the weight and balance. Imagine the average passenger's thoughts when they put two small bags in the seats and announced it was to get the cg correct!

"Oh yeah I almost forgot...FREEDOM!!!" You crack me up!

#### Seggy

##### Well-Known Member
I would bet that the bags where in the cabin as it was a Cargo Hold limitation

#### Lowlevel

##### Heehee.. Member
I would bet that the bags where in the cabin as it was a Cargo Hold limitation
What? Do you mean a weight limit in the cargo bay? Or cg difference (cargo vs seats)?

#### Seggy

##### Well-Known Member
Cargo Bay

The two planes I have flown 121 have Cargo Hold/Bay weight limitations.

#### B767Driver

##### New Member
We used to bring bags in the cabin when I worked at the commuters. Bags in the cabin are part of the passengers total weight and is counted as a carry on bag. Bags in the cargo bin had to be counted fully. If you brought a bag into the cabin...all of sudden it didn't weigh anything.

Of course the bag should conform to the FAA's size limitation for carry ons...

#### CamYZ125

##### Well-Known Member
We used to bring bags in the cabin when I worked at the commuters. Bags in the cabin are part of the passengers total weight and is counted as a carry on bag. Bags in the cargo bin had to be counted fully. If you brought a bag into the cabin...all of sudden it didn't weigh anything.

Of course the bag should conform to the FAA's size limitation for carry ons...

Bingo. Couple of times I've been riding on flights where they were over the max weight with all of the checked bags + 'gate checked' bags + pax, so fit as many of the 'gate checked' bags in the cabin, and poof they don't count as weight any more on the weight and balance.

Stupid? Yeah. Oh well, that's how the system works...

I hate RJs.

#### Lowlevel

##### Heehee.. Member
I hate RJs.
I hate ERJ's
Friend that flies for XJet says they did some mod on their planes so they do not have as many problems as Freedom with W&B.
All I know is whenever weather goes down, Freedom kicks pax off, it happens all the time at JFK.
I have only had 2-3 times that I actually had to kick off pax in 2 years on a CRJ. We have to move people around, but they still get to their destination. I have had many times when we had to add ballast to the cargo compartment to get the cg in limits.

#### Seggy

##### Well-Known Member
Never have had any weight and balance issues on the Beech or the Weedwacker.

Props rule

#### Lowlevel

##### Heehee.. Member
Never have had any weight and balance issues on the Beech or the Weedwacker.

Props rule
Oh come on now When Big Sky took over a lot of our routes out of BOS, the gate agents complained every day that they would only take 14-15 passengers with bags (w&b)....Kinda a waste to have 19 seats if you only use 14!

#### Seggy

##### Well-Known Member
That was their weight and balance program not ours

See two airlines, same airplane, different programs.

Props rule

#### cime_sp

##### Well-Known Member
At ASA if it's a pink tag bag in the cargo bin it weighs 20 pounds. If you bring the same bag into the cabin, it magicaly weighs 0 pounds!!! After they removed the passengers they were probably 30 punds overweight. Move 2 bags into the cabin and they are now within legal limits.