NWA's TA Bad for Pinnacle and Mesaba?

tonyw

Well-Known Member
http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=4258

Northwest Airlines' tentative agreement with its pilots, if ratified, likely will curtail growth opportunities for Pinnacle Airlines, Northwest's primary Regional partner, said JP Morgan analyst Jamie Baker.That is because NWA "appears to have succeeded in forming a wholly owned Regional subsidiary, staffed primarily" by pilots furloughed from the mainline, according to a JP Morgan report released Monday. Such an arrangement previously was opposed vehemently by the Air Line Pilots Assn.-represented pilots at Northwest, but management apparently overcame their opposition.

Take it with a grain of salt. It is Jamie Baker talking, the man who said, United will be bankrupt by the end of the year so I'm putting an underweight rating on the stock. Uh, hello? If it's going to be bankrupt, shouldn't you put a SELL rating on it?
 
I don't get that. NWA ALPA is indicating they won on the NewCo. issue, so I'm not sure how NWA still has the right to set up a new company to fly regional jets -- unless NWA still can set up the company but has to use mainline pilots under the mainline CBA. But then what would be the point of having a whole separate company?
 
Similiar article published here in MSP today.
NWA pilots' victory could limit growth for Pinnacle

The tentative agreement with Northwest pilots reserves flying of 77-seat jets and larger planes for the big carrier's pilots.
Liz Fedor, Star Tribune Last update: March 06, 2006 – 11:38 PM

A victory for Northwest Airlines' pilots may be a loss for Pinnacle Airlines, a Northwest regional partner, according to one Wall Street analyst.

Jamie Baker, a J.P. Morgan airline analyst, predicted Monday that Pinnacle's flying for Northwest could be limited to the 44- to 50-seat airplanes it now operates after Northwest late last week acceded to a demand by its pilots that they fly all jets with 77 or more seats. Baker and Pinnacle have said they now expect Northwest to renegotiate its service contract with Pinnacle, offering the smaller airline less-favorable terms. Pinnacle stock dropped 10 percent Monday to close at $6.58 per share.

Under the tentative agreement, there are complex limitations and conditions that Northwest must follow for flying that is done by subsidiaries or regional affiliates with airplanes with 76 or fewer seats, according to Wade Blaufuss, a spokesman for the Northwest branch of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).


Northwest spokesman Bill Mellon declined to comment on the restrictions.
Pinnacle flies 124 regional jets for Northwest. It had to remove 15 planes from service Nov. 1 after Northwest filed for bankruptcy in September.

Northwest has been eager to acquire new airplanes that fall between the 50-seat Canadair Regional Jets (CRJs) Pinnacle flies, and the 100- to 125-seat DC-9s flown by Northwest pilots. The DC-9s need to be replaced, and Northwest is looking at Embraer and Canadair regional jets.

"Northwest appears to have prevailed in the formation of a wholly owned regional subsidiary staffed in large part by Northwest furloughees," Baker said in his report. He estimated that the new subsidiary would operate about 50 regional jets in a two-class configuration, which means passengers accustomed to flying in DC-9 first-class cabins could retain that choice.


In December, Northwest asked several regional carriers, including Pinnacle and Eagan-based Mesaba, to submit proposals to operate up to 126 regional jets with a capacity of up to 76 seats. Pinnacle and Mesaba are discussing their proposals with Northwest management, which has not indicated when jet allocation decisions will be made.


New subsidiary after all?
Northwest pilots fought the outsourcing of Northwest jobs, but Baker's report Monday indicates that Northwest gained the right to establish a subsidiary for regional flying.

The analyst noted that Northwest would need a federal operating certificate for that subsidiary, and he speculated that Northwest might buy an existing certificate. He suggested two possible sources -- the certificate held by Independence Air that recently ceased operations and one held by Mesaba parent MAIR Holdings' small subsidiary, Big Sky Airlines. Montana-based Big Sky was purchased as a growth vehicle by MAIR, but MAIR is prohibited by the Mesaba Airlines pilots' agreement from using Big Sky to fly planes larger than 19 seats.


Before any regional planes are acquired, Northwest pilots must ratify the new agreement that was reached Friday. That contract, which saves Northwest $358 million a year, includes the continuation of 23.9 percent pay cuts for pilots that took effect in November. That cut was on top of a 15 percent pay reduction in late 2004.


Blaufuss said the agreement also includes 1.5 percent pay increases in 2008, 2009 and 2010 and a 2 percent raise in 2011. If Northwest exits bankruptcy this year, the pilots' contract runs through the end of 2010. However, the contract's duration ends in 2011 if the carrier leaves bankruptcy in 2007, Blaufuss said.


The pilots have not set a date for the ratification vote.


Key IAM votes
Members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) finished voting on a new contract Monday. About 14,000 ground workers at Northwest are represented by the IAM.


They have been voting on a tentative agreement over the past month.
Bobby DePace, District 143 IAM president, said "none of us are happy" about the concessionary contract. He added that negotiators tried to "save as many jobs as we could."

The contract includes 11.5 percent pay cuts, the outsourcing of work in some smaller stations and up to 20 weeks of severance pay for people who lose their jobs.

Results of the IAM vote are expected to be released later this week.
Liz Fedor • 612-673-7709
 
Its still very early guys. I wouldnt be surprised if the this TA doesnt pass. from what i heard this is far from over.
 
seems to me that there are some big wins and some big losses..all done in a "backstabbing" fashion...like....

yay! you get to have the 70 seater planes and up allowing quicker moveups and better rates...but booo it's going to be a "regional" subsidiary which means they can still pay you crap cuz it's not *exactly* going to be NWA pay rates...

how unfair!
 
As far as scope goes, I didn't see anything change at all. We're already scoped to 76 seaters or less at 9E, so that didn't change. According to what I read, NWA retains the rights to 76+ seaters (as they should). I really don't see how any new information came out that the "analysts" garnered nuggets of truth saying that this TA (which as noted before may or may not pass) changes the playing field.

Now, if NWA had changed it to 70+ seats instead of 76, THEN that changes things. I really don't see how a spin off regional carrier would work if flown with mainline pilots, IMO. Didn't US Airways try this, and it got swallowed by Republic? Now, if NWA is looking to spin it off for cash, then that might be a different story.....
 
RE: US airways

my understanding is this is how it went down (simplified and most likey riddled with errors).

US went to mainline pilots to try and get some 170s

Mainline agreed as part of j4j, so most (at least captain slots) went to US furloughees. Some spots were also made available to wholly owneds (ALG, PDT, and PSA)

Mid Atlantic was born, as the 4th wholly owned for US.

All the 170s were sold to Republic (Shuttle America/Chautaugua) and US awarded teh former MDA flying to Republic.

Rebuplic offered MDA pilots jobs (at significatly lower pay rates). Pilots called shennanigans and called lawyers.

Judge decided it was an asset sale (the aircraft were sold ala carte, Republic did not by the operating cert), so the pilots were not covered by their contract.
 
kellwolf said:
As far as scope goes, I didn't see anything change at all. We're already scoped to 76 seaters or less at 9E
Are you sure? I thought the reason NWA didn't have any regionals flying the 50+ seaters was because the scope prevented that, short of a few Avro's. I am almost 100% sure of this fact - it's why Pinnacle doesn't operate any -700's.

Below is a segment of the TA that talks about the 50+ seaters.

Now, if NWA is looking to spin it off for cash, then that might be a different story.....
flightinfo said:
SMALL JET (SJ) PARAMETERS OF THE NWA / ALPA RESTRUCTURING TENTATIVE AGREEMENT
Highlights of the SJ flying parameters.

1. SJ’s with a certificated seating capacity of 50 seats or less.
• Flown at feeder carriers.
• Unlimited number allowed.
• No limitations on use.
• No limitations on ownership, financing, control, etc.
• No special employment opportunities for furloughed NWA pilots except as provided for the Pinnacle Hiring LOA signed in 2002.

2. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats not owned, leased, financed, or controlled by NWA and operated at Feeder Carriers flying their own aircraft.
• No limitations on use.
• Must have a certificated seating capacity of 86 seats or less, with the exception that if the CRJ-900LR is operated the maximum seating certification level is 90 seats.
Limited to 55 aircraft. This total includes the existing 35 Mesaba Avros, which these aircraft are intended to replace.
• The 55 limit may be exceeded on a 1:1 basis with the “entering into service” of a 77-110 seat configured SJ to be flown at NWA mainline. The pay rates and work rules for the 77-110 seat mainline SJ are covered later.
• Furloughed NWA pilots are entitled to 5 new hire jobs at the Feeder Carrier operating the aircraft.
• The Feeder Carrier’s furloughed pilots have first right to any jobs at their airline.
• The furloughed NWA pilots employed at the Feeder Carrier would work under the terms of that carrier’s pilot contract.

3. SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats which are owned, leased, or financed by NWA and operated at Feeder Carriers.
• All parameters are the same as the previous section, and are included in the 55 aircraft limit, except the employment opportunities for furloughed NWA pilots.
• Furloughed NWA pilots would then be entitled to ½ of the Captain and ½ of the First Officer positions created to operate the aircraft provided by NWA. (Except at Mesaba, where there are already pilots operating 35 Avros, which will be replaced.)
• The furloughed NWA pilots employed at the Feeder Carrier would work under the terms of that carrier’s pilot contract.

4.SJ’s configured with 51-76 seats which are flown at a separate wholly owned subsidiary/affiliate of NWA (called “SJet” for now”).
• No limitations on use.
• Must have a certificated seating capacity of 86 seats or less, with the exception that if the CRJ-900LR is operated the maximum seating certification level is 90 seats.
• Limited to 90 total aircraft, which is inclusive of the 55 aircraft limit for the Feeder Carrier flying.
• The 90 aircraft limit may be exceeded on a 1:1 basis with the “entering into service” of a 77-110 seat configured SJ to be flown at NWA mainline.
• Furloughed NWA pilots have the first right to the jobs at “SJet”, but will be on a separate seniority list.
• There would be a “flow up / flow down” between pilots at “SJet” and NWA, including new hire pilots at SJet and NWA. The flow up / down would be subject to metering limitations.
NWA would be allowed to sell “SJet” after 10 77-110 seat configured Small Jets “are in active service” at NWA mainline.
• If the successor owner of “SJet” does not comply with the Flow Up / Down provisions, the number of 51-76 seat SJs being flown by Feeder Carriers would be required to be reduced to a baseline of 55 aircraft.
• The pay rates and work rules for the “SJet” flying are covered later.
Note: the trigger for NWA to outsource up to 90 76 seat configured aircraft is dependent upon maintaining the flow up/down process.

5. SJ’s configured with 77-110 seats (118 certificated) would be flown at NWA Mainline at the previously mentioned ratios.
• 1:1 ratio above 55 76 seat SJs operated by Feeder Carriers which are not subsidiaries of NWA.
• 1:1 ratio above 90 76 seat SJs operated by NWA subsidiary “SJet” and other Feeder Carriers.
• Pay rates and work rules for this group are included later and would not include any aircraft with a certified seating capacity greater than 118, or any series of an aircraft type already operated by NWA, such as the 318, B717, etc.
6. A mainline narrowbody fleet threshold (floor) would be established one year after emergence from bankruptcy.
~wheelsup
 
doug_or said:
RE: US airways

my understanding is this is how it went down (simplified and most likey riddled with errors).

US went to mainline pilots to try and get some 170s

Mainline agreed as part of j4j, so most (at least captain slots) went to US furloughees. Some spots were also made available to wholly owneds (ALG, PDT, and PSA)

Mid Atlantic was born, as the 4th wholly owned for US.

All the 170s were sold to Republic (Shuttle America/Chautaugua) and US awarded teh former MDA flying to Republic.

Rebuplic offered MDA pilots jobs (at significatly lower pay rates). Pilots called shennanigans and called lawyers.

Judge decided it was an asset sale (the aircraft were sold ala carte, Republic did not by the operating cert), so the pilots were not covered by their contract.

Except, MDA was never a wholly owned. It was on the US Airways Mainline Certificate. That is why the pilots and FA's are suing them and ALPA and AFA! They never had a new contract, and the "assets" never should have been sold without the crews. Even Doug Parker tried to stop the sale since he realized U could fly the planes better and less costly than Republic. But it was too late. Now customers are complaining like crazy over the stupid service: FA's ranting to CP's about putting anything in the seat pockets--threatening to have them removed from the flight if they insert their Wall Street Journal; but deploying slides (at about $50,000), etc.
 
wheelsup said:
Are you sure? I thought the reason NWA didn't have any regionals flying the 50+ seaters was because the scope prevented that, short of a few Avro's. I am almost 100% sure of this fact - it's why Pinnacle doesn't operate any -700's.

Below is a segment of the TA that talks about the 50+ seaters.



~wheelsup


That's all we've been hearing since Monday was the scoped to 76 clause. Then again, it is new hire training and ALPA has yet to come talk to us. Should be tomorrow or the day after, and maybe we can get some copies of our clauses.
 
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