Not talking to ATC

bjm

bjm

New Member
For starters, this is my first post, but I have a question. Have you all had run-ins with pilots not talking to ATC? I flew to COU from SUS yesterday (IFR in VMC), and heading out of the St. Louis area, we get a traffic advisory "behind us" going same direction, slowly overtaking. We look to the right and see him 1/2 to 1 mile coming towards us, 300 ft. altitude difference. The other pilot was not talking to ATC, and we had to change course to maintain visual separation. I know it's not required, but it would be nice for people to use the services available to them. This is the second time I've had a situation like this in mid-MO.
 
1st off, Welcome to JC. Have you been a lurker? Anyway, to aswer your question, I have seen that situation as well. I kind of see that as a similar situation as not using the radios at an uncontrolled field. I know it is not required, but come on people let's make it safer for us all. I am in the process of finishing up my IFR training and appreciate any and all help that ATC can provide. I use flight following anytime that I can and like you said, why not usee all the help that is out there.
 
well, i have been a member for about a month, but a lurker for quite a while before that. anyway, my instructors were big on using ATC whenever possible, even for a 20 mile hop. it seems safer for you and everyone else for ATC to know where you are and what you're doing, even VFR...
 
If it is there, use it. Period. I guess some pilots have mike fright, but as you said, if it can save your butt, then it is worthwhile. But it just goes to show that even when talking to ATC, it is best to keep your eyes peeled. Happy flying.
 
Keep your head on a swivel 'cause there are plenty of pilots out there that either don't have radios, or don't want to talk to ATC. It's perfectly legal and I, for one, hopes it stays that way. I know professional pilots that will do a lot of their "fun flying" in VFR "I-ain't-talkin-to-nobody" mode, just because they're tired of working with the ATC guys every day for their job, and they enjoy the freedom of just flying where they want, and if they see something that interests them they turn and look and meander wherever they want to without having to report back to "big brother".

See-and-avoid is the name of the game. Also don't assume that just because you're talking to ATC that they'll call all of the traffic for you. Remember that their mission is to keep the IFR planes from running into terra firma or other IFR traffic. Everything else is "workload-permitting" gravy, so do not, repeat do not, count on ATC for traffic avoidance if you are in VFR conditions. They are a tremendous help and I do agree that using their services will do nothing but good things, but you will lose that sense of protection afforded by ATC the first time an unexpected plane goes whizzing close by and scares the bejeesus out of you without a word of warning from the controller.
 
There are a bunch of times where I've been just outside of the ADIZ, talking to ATC to get my squawk, and they will tell me that there is VFR traffic near me. These people are not talking to ATC at all.

I think that's foolish so close to the ADIZ, but that's just me. Anyway, it definitely pays to keep your eyes peeled at all times!
 
While always a good idea to get flight following, sometimes the controllers are over loaded and can't offer the service. That's happened to me a couple of times down here. Although in some of the areas I was in, I think maybe the controller just didn't want to deal with someone not on an IFR flight plan.
 
ha. yes, i'm sure in the busier airspace it may not be possible sometimes. we don't really have that problem in central missouri though
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ha. yes, i'm sure in the busier airspace it may not be possible sometimes. we don't really have that problem in central missouri though
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Just watch out for agcatman
 
you mentioned in your previous post hoping it stays legal to not be forced into using ATC. i had never really considered the implications of making that a requirement, but i think it would be bad. that would REALLY strain the system.

it is just much more comforting to me when controllers are able to issue traffic alerts to BOTH aircraft involved. even if i see them, they may not see me, and if they're not talking, i don't know if they have me in sight or not.
 
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hey, whats exactly is the flight following?

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I don't have the book definition, but at the apt that I fly out of, I would request FF from ground control and would then be given a descreet code to enter into my transponder. This would allow ATC to "follow" me and issue traffic advisories and course guidance if requested (I believe). It is sort of another set of eyes watching your flight. The one thing I can say for sure is this Flight Following is all on a Workload Permitting basis. If you are in VMC it is the pilots responsibly to see and avoid. Hope it helps. I am sure others can add more or will correct me if I am wrong in some area.
 
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you mentioned in your previous post hoping it stays legal to not be forced into using ATC. i had never really considered the implications of making that a requirement, but i think it would be bad. that would REALLY strain the system.

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I didn't mean to imply that this was a potential possibility. Just meant that I like the freedom to fly outside of the "system".
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it is just much more comforting to me when controllers are able to issue traffic alerts to BOTH aircraft involved. even if i see them, they may not see me, and if they're not talking, i don't know if they have me in sight or not.

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Agreed.

It's always important to remember that there are plenty of times that ATC is talking to only one (or neither) of the planes, so be aware. It's really easy to get fixated inside of the plane, especially when we're flying IFR, and forget that the best traffic avoidance is that big 'ol windscreen and the Mark 2 eyeballs when we're in VMC. ATC, or even TCAS/TCAD, can't give us any warning if the other guy doesn't have a transponder (or hasn't turned it on).
 
The problem is if everyone used flight following would the system be able to coupe?

Just something to think about (from a guy who never flies without flight following!!!).
 
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The problem is if everyone used flight following would the system be able to coupe?

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That's easy. No way. I know that was probably rhetorical, but I'm in a talkative mood tonight.

Also, keep in mind the radar capabilities of the controlling agency. I've had approach call out traffic xx o'clock altitude unknown, only to see either a flock of birds or a REALLY big truck on the highway.
 
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The problem is if everyone used flight following would the system be able to coupe?
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I'll second that motion. It can get confusing. A short time ago I was flying safety pilot for a friend and ATC was calling out traffic. They were moving slow and gettting closer then farther then closer again. I could not see them and after a split second I thought duh. You are passing an airport and the traffic he was calling out was plane in the pattern.
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That situational awareness bug got me again. Always be aware. And yes I did finally see the traffic after looking towards the apt.
 
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If i'm using flight following then I can't listen to Rush Limbaugh on the ADF during a cross country.

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Sure ya can. Whether you'd want to is another question.
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(Whoops, was that a slam?)
 
I hate to admit it, but finding radio Disney is a fantastic achievement at times. I'm not a big political talk redio guy, but anything other than AM talk radio is welcome in my book.

But then, of course, I'm flying mostly southeast sector so I really don't have the time/need to ferret-out radio station.
 
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