No refunds from flight school account?

N5247D

N5247D

New Member
Today's been a busy day of research and back and forth with my flight school.
As some of you have probably seen, I'm looking to get my tail wheel endorsement. I am currently attending a flight school in KTMB.So here's the situation.

I went to this flight school with intentions to get my commercial single-engine addon and CFI. I got my commercial single engine add-on but there wasn't enough money to finish the CFI. Getting my CFI is out of the question.

Luckily I got an offer to fly taildraggers, but I need the endorsement. My plan was to use the remaining money left in my account to get my endorsement. Apparently, in the agreement it stated no refunds are given. Not quite sure if I remember reading that. Money was put into an account via credit card via a corporate sponsor of sorts. My question is, is this even allowed? A school to keep $2500 of somebodies money, and the only way it can be used is towards flight training?

Or is it possible to dispute this to the credit card agency and get back the money from the flight school? I feel right now, they're playing hard to get being that I'm not continuing an education with these folks. I'm unsure what to say or do. Some help or info on the matter would be great.
 
Well first of all get the agreement you signed and see what it says. If you didn't sign it or they didn't provide one your probably in the clear if you lean on them a little. I would also file a claim ASAP with the credit card company about the situation. A lot of times the credit card company will refund the money then fight for their money if they are a stand-up CC.

Did you get a discount for the training by buying a block of time or a program? If so they should even refund the balance at the regular rate. This is a classic example of why putting a lot of money on account at a flight school will bite you.
 
I believe the CC company could help you. Back in my customer service days I would have people request to call their card company in the store to get them to cancel payment, it never worked. However, the companies would say if they were charged for something they did not in fact own, then they would cancel payment...if we charged them for two ipods and they only walked out with one. I think you could get it canceled.

You would need to get the school involved as you would need to prove the services were not used nor would they be and the school would have to admit they were not used.

You also could go to the Attorney General Office of your state and report unfair business practices. Might even be enough of a threat to get the school to give a refund.

I don't really think they have any legal standing for keeping the money. When a college receives extra money for a student the money is either returned or given to the student. I am sure if they could legally keep the money they would, so I dont see the flight school being able to do it either.
 
No discounts that I know of, I'm just handling the going to school and passing everything part. From a guy who is depending on me to do exactly just that..

So far I've been keeping up my side of the bargain lol . I thought it was unfair when the chief pilot told me this as well, but I knew better than to argue with her. So I yes mam'd her and politely said I will contact her later to let her know what I plan on doing. She should be expecting a phone call from my boss who's is currently out the country later.I'm not the average student, nor is he your normal average boss.If she had known, I think matters would've of been handled differently.Matt, I do agree with you that the threat alone will probably be enough to do the trick, but lets hope that's all it takes. I just want to get this money so I can get my endorsement and start flying. It's not like its $200. It's $2500. Now although that's chump change to my boss, money is money. And money is of no use if it goes wasted. I thought it was quite odd that a SCHOOL, which provides me the student a SERVICE, would tell me that they do not refund money not used.
 
N5247D said:
A school to keep $2500 of somebodies money, and the only way it can be used is towards flight training?

Or is it possible to dispute this to the credit card agency and get back the money from the flight school? I feel right now, they're playing hard to get being that I'm not continuing an education with these folks. I'm unsure what to say or do. Some help or info on the matter would be great.
Click to expand...

If you signed such an agreement that says "no refunds," well, they probably are not going to want to give you a refund. You can try disputing the charge, but they have a contract and will win in all probability. Perhaps looking over the contract to find some area that they were in breach of might help. Caveat Emptor, and this is why you should always read contracts before you sign them.

Why give up on the CFI though? $2,500 should be more than enough to do it, you can prep for the oral entirely by yourself. That costs $0. I can't imagine in what universe you would need more than 10 hours dual to prepare for the checkride - you are basically just doing the same thing as the C-SEL, but from the right seat, and talking your way through it. If they are saying they want 40 hours dual to sign you off for the ride, well, they probably want your money. If that is the case, do 10 hours dual for the CFI ride with them, have someone else sign you off, and you really aren't out anything. (I wouldn't mention that you are planning to do this)

BTW, what is the tailwheel job? Be careful, as low-time tailwheel gigs often border on being a scam. Most reputable gigs I know of in FL would want a fair number of TW hours, and they aren't exactly that hard up for pilots either.
 
If it said on the document you signed that nothing could be refunded, perhaps there is a clause that will get you out of it.
 
Another way might be to give a $2500 credit to another student and have them give you $2000 or something like that.
 
Did you buy a "block" or "package" or is this money on account to be deducted from future services. I would think that if the money is on account then it should be very easy for you to get your money back depending on the state. I would assume in that case the money is recorded on the balence sheets as a liability and you have the right to it regardless of what 'contract' they made you sign ( because theres already laws governing this and some some contracts cant overide public policy). Check with your states attorney generals office. They may even make a few phone calls for you.
 
You should contact the folks at jetuniversitysucks.com. I know they have been able to get some schools to refund student's money (or wish they had). Just be glad you only have $2500 on the line and not $25,000.

Joe
 
SlantG said:
What state? BS like this nearly put CA flight schools out of business.
Click to expand...

Florida..If they don't give back the money then I will hang the school to dry, but in the meantime I will wait and see what happens when my boss checks in.I just want to get my TW endorsement so I can start flying and the only way I can do that is if I get this money!
 
jtrain might be able to chime in with better info, but I was under the assumption that contracts need to have consideration for both parties. If you aren't receiving something for your $2500 in the form a discount or something else, the contract shouldn't be enforceable, IMO.

The sad fact is that it will probably cost more for a lawyer to take care of this for you than $2500.
 
Well my boss just told me to use the money there and rent.. I was like better yet, I'm just going to get proficient in instrument flying again.He was game.

As for the tailwheel endorsement, I'm covered on all bases.So things didn't turn out too bad.
 
Sounds rather familiar...

You can get out of that. I'd wait for your "sponsor" of sorts to see if he/ she can settle the issue. Most schools will come to their senses and simply refund, because they loose in the long run from screwing people over and getting called out for it. The AG and BBB as well as a well structured publicity campaign will bring attention to the matter. :ooh:
 
Sorry, no one pays attention to the BBB and you don't hear of many successes of individuals against companies like this. Although, in hindsight - buyer beware comes to mind. You gotta read the fine print when signing contracts.

I'm glad the OP found a method to help the situation, but I do not find that shady aviation schools with no refund policy "come to their senses" very often unless lawyers are involved...
 
A few things happened in this case that students can learn from.

1. The student had paid no more than the maximum in advance ($2500) that I have been talking about for many years. That was smart and that gave him the most potential to recover in this case. Don't ever pay a flight school more than $2500 in advance or let them get more than $2500 ahead of you no matter what they tell you, how good they make it sound or what discount they offer you.. If the school is not capitalized enough and they require large upfront payments to run their business, then RUN from that school and find a school that does not require large upfront payments. In spite of what you hear, most flight schools do not require large upfront payments.

2. It's much easier for a shady school that has only collected $2500 in advance to write a check for a refund than for a shady school that has collected $25,000 in advance to write a check for a refund.

3. When the amount owed is only $2500, the student has the ability to go to small claims court without an attorney. (Think Judge Judy) The fee to file a small claims suit is usually less than $200 and if you win the fees are added on top the amount judgment amount which the flight school would have to pay.

4. If a flight school is going to stay in business they will have to pay the judgment.

It's getting more difficult for these shady flight schools to collect these types of fees up front, because the word it getting out on this scam. But it still is happening on a more limited scale these days and there are still some scum suckers out there working this scam.

Joe
 
Usually poorly run flight schools with cash flow problems have policies like this, and it's often an indicator of what's going on in MX that you don't know about. If they can't repay, then they shouldn't take money up front in the first place.
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
In spite of what you hear, most flight schools do not require large upfront payments.
Click to expand...

The one I have used the most extends credit terms to students (they send me a bill at the end of the month). They aren't really any more expensive, and have outstanding MX facilities.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top