No more UAV Drops?

Superfly7XAF said:
Looks like the first Beta-Class of "pilots" (yes I used quotations) graduated out of Creech recently. Think this will take hold and eventually keep UAVs from dropping at UPT?
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No.

There's always a need for UAV fodder.......
 
Definitely doesn't mean the end of rated pilots getting sent to the seat of UAVs, UASs, RPVs, or whatever the name of the day is.

In fact, in his speech at that class' graduation, the CSAF repeatedly noted that the process was an experiment, and that nobody knew how well it was going to work out.

We have to face it -- UAVs are here to stay. In what capacity they'll serve, that remains to be seen. So with that goes how those aircraft will be manned. I happen to think that this shortcut program fails to provide the operators with the air sense they need in order to operate in the complex airspace in a combat operation.

These guys, in essence, are stooging around blindly in the battlespace without any awareness that other aircraft need to also operate there and what is required to deconflict that airspace.

So, I don't see this being the 'real' answer. FWIW, I do think the answer is to put SUPT-trained pilots in the job

Why?

This is *exactly* like the "scope" clauses that major airlines worked out decades ago. They scoffed the regional jet because they thought it 'beneath' them to fly such a thing. And look what's happened 20 years later...the RJ is here, and taking work away from them.

And so it goes with USAF pilots and UAVs...work which is apparently 'beneath' us. USAF pilots want to flick this UAV booger to someone other than them, because that's a short-term gain ("that's one less slot for me"). Unfortunately, UAVs are only going to grow in size, scope, importance, and use as time goes on. If pilots allow a second rated pilot (operator?) career field to emerge, we are accepting the fact that eventually it is *us* who will be the dinosaurs and *we* who will eventually be phased out. Although I think there will always be a need for aircraft piloted with people actually in the aircraft, as soon as the "remotely piloted" vehicles reach a state of equal importance in the USAF, we have set the stage for a culture war...a culture war that the "manned" pilots are going to lose.

We need to keep guys with radiator wings (ergo, rated pilots) solidly in the UAV game, otherwise we will be totally left out in the cold.
 
aloft said:
So if I read you correctly, you're volunteering to take a PCS to Creech?
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Well, if that's where I was needed, sure. Don't forget that I've all ready done time as a commissioned officer and not a pilot. I'm not one of these SJS wannabes who only got into this game because I wanted to be a "fighter pilot or nothin'!" I started my commissioned service as a non-rated officer, knowing full well that I might never get into a cockpit. I actually really enjoyed the time I spent in my previous career, and I've often said that if I got to the point medically that I couldn't fly anymore I'd happily go back to serving in my previous career field.

Having worked with the UAV guys in the air in Afghanistan, and having numerous former squadronmates doing that job, I fully appreciate the significant role that UAVs are playing in the current war.

I know some hardcore fighter pilot types who absolutely scoffed the idea of any redeeming value to the UAV....right up until the point that they were assigned to do it. Although they initially went kicking and screaming, every single one -- to a man -- acknowledges that they had more positive effect on battling Islamic fundamentalism in the UAV job than they ever did in their F-16, F-15E, or A-10. Naturally, at the bar with the boys they'll make fun of it because of the social stigma, but when discussed one-on-one all of them acknowledge significant job satisfaction.

Obviously the 'cost' of this is not actually using stick-and-rudder skills and getting hours in a cockpit. That's a biggie for those of us who love to fly airplanes, naturally. Unfortunately, the US military doesn't exist to 'fulfill dreams', and there's a reason that the military is called 'the service'.

If that's where I'm assigned, so be it. I can always go fly on my own dime if I need to scratch that itch.
 
UAVs are definitely still dropping in UPT...

and i think UAVs should drop to the T-38 guys...they are more prepared for the mission than the t-1 guys
 
ian said:
UAVs are definitely still dropping in UPT...

and i think UAVs should drop to the T-38 guys...they are more prepared for the mission than the t-1 guys
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The reality is, nobody is prepared for *anything* when they graduate UPT. In that case, T-38 and T-1 graduates are equally unprepared for UAVs.
 
Hacker15e said:
The reality is, nobody is prepared for *anything* when they graduate UPT. In that case, T-38 and T-1 graduates are equally unprepared for UAVs.
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Agree. Both sides are pretty much on par, overall knowledge-wise, upon grad from UPT.....just the focus and style are different. But neither has any great knowledge at that particular point in time over another vis-a-vis UAV, or really much of any other tactical stuff at that point. Nothing bad or negative, it's just one of those things that is.
 
aloft said:
If that ever happens bro, you can be my wingman anytime. :D
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O' God I hope they keep it to former military pilots only...flown with and in the same airspace with enough CAP pilots to conclude they might be more of a problem than a help.

ian said:
UAVs are definitely still dropping in UPT...
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Sorry to still here it, can't imagine the frustration to go through UPT and get UAV. Are any of the UAV pilots eligible to go back to UPT and instruct in the T-6 (kinda of like Naval Aviators on a shore tour) or are they UAV forever.
 
rpfeif said:
O' God I hope they keep it to former military pilots only...flown with and in the same airspace with enough CAP pilots to conclude they might be more of a problem than a help.



Sorry to still here it, can't imagine the frustration to go through UPT and get UAV. Are any of the UAV pilots eligible to go back to UPT and instruct in the T-6 (kinda of like Naval Aviators on a shore tour) or are they UAV forever.
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I had heard that getting UAVs was kind of like getting FAIPed. You would basically go into a pool at the end of that assignment, and get assigned another MWS at the end of your tour.

At the same time, that isn't really a great way to man a career field. If UAV's become a stop-over for guys who fly Tankers or Eagles, or Vipers, or anything else, then they will not become a full fledged career field in their own right. They won't develop "gray-beards" who have been in the weapons system for a number of years and know it backwards and forwards. Those are the guys who man the school-houses and develop tactics, as well as argue for the future of the weapon system, etc., etc.

My guess is that eventually at least some of the UAV community will be manned by permanent UAVer's who move up the ranks within that structure. That is probably the best for thing for the AF, because it would ensure the UAV community a pool of expertise to grow around. It is not necessarily the best thing for the pilot involved, because it would be detrimental to that person being as able to transfer over to the airlines at the end of his career. Actually, that's another way it would benefit the AF.
 
fish314 said:
At the same time, that isn't really a great way to man a career field. If UAV's become a stop-over for guys who fly Tankers or Eagles, or Vipers, or anything else, then they will not become a full fledged career field in their own right. They won't develop "gray-beards" who have been in the weapons system for a number of years and know it backwards and forwards. Those are the guys who man the school-houses and develop tactics, as well as argue for the future of the weapon system, etc., etc.

My guess is that eventually at least some of the UAV community will be manned by permanent UAVer's who move up the ranks within that structure. That is probably the best for thing for the AF, because it would ensure the UAV community a pool of expertise to grow around. It is not necessarily the best thing for the pilot involved, because it would be detrimental to that person being as able to transfer over to the airlines at the end of his career. Actually, that's another way it would benefit the AF.
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:clap:

Hacker15e said:
Obviously the 'cost' of this is not actually using stick-and-rudder skills and getting hours in a cockpit. That's a biggie for those of us who love to fly airplanes, naturally. Unfortunately, the US military doesn't exist to 'fulfill dreams', and there's a reason that the military is called 'the service'.
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:clap:

From one young LT UPT stud to...Well I guess several combat experienced badass mofos, you are some sharp dudes! Thanks for your contributions to this forum. That goes for MikeD, Ian, etc. too.
 
rpfeif said:
Sorry to still here it, can't imagine the frustration to go through UPT and get UAV. Are any of the UAV pilots eligible to go back to UPT and instruct in the T-6 (kinda of like Naval Aviators on a shore tour) or are they UAV forever.
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its just a one tour assignment now...so you will get an actual aircraft after your UAV tour
 
ian said:
its just a one tour assignment now...so you will get an actual aircraft after your UAV tour
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Have you heard of anyone actually getting out of UAV's? Up to this point, I know of only a few people who were able to transition back to a manned aircraft. In fact, the only way for the AD sensor operators to move to a new job is to get out of the AF.
 
The Fez said:
Have you heard of anyone actually getting out of UAV's? Up to this point, I know of only a few people who were able to transition back to a manned aircraft. In fact, the only way for the AD sensor operators to move to a new job is to get out of the AF.
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they haven't been dropping out of UPT long enough for that yet.....
 
To be honest, other than the "chair flying" experience, I tend to think that UAVs would be a decent career move. You're home everynight for the most part, and what you do on a daily basis is actually impacting the war. I think that flying patrols over Baghdad everyday would be satisfying, but most of the time you'd just be burning jetA. Those UAV guys go to work, kill some badguys, go home. Of course that does lead to a very high stress level, and I completely understand how these guys can get PTSD. Just my $.02 as a completely outside observer.
 
ian said:
they haven't been dropping out of UPT long enough for that yet.....
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I think the Fez is asking about people already in UAVs, whether or not they've been able to normally rotate out. The UPT guys that have gone first-assigmnent, well, we'll see if the AF keeps its promise on that in a few years.

Hope they got that promise on paper.........
 
ppragman said:
To be honest, other than the "chair flying" experience, I tend to think that UAVs would be a decent career move. You're home everynight for the most part, and what you do on a daily basis is actually impacting the war. I think that flying patrols over Baghdad everyday would be satisfying, but most of the time you'd just be burning jetA. Those UAV guys go to work, kill some badguys, go home. Of course that does lead to a very high stress level, and I completely understand how these guys can get PTSD. Just my $.02 as a completely outside observer.
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I think it depends on the person. Guys with families who want a stable life, almost like being in the Guard, then yeah they might like it. I'd personally hate going through UPT and then not flying and eventually retiring from the AF with no flight time and little to no opportunity continuing a career in aviation.

That being said, it would still beat what I'm doing now and I'd still have wings on my chest.
 
From my 18 month experience with an AFSOC UAV squadron, I have yet to see a pilot leave and go back to a manned asset. I'm not familiar with AF policies regarding transfers, pca's/pcs's etc., but so far it's been like "Hotel California", you can check out but you can never leave. For the enlisted folks...yeah, you're not going anywhere.

I start work with an ACC UAV squadron next week so it'll be interesting to see how different they operate from their AFSOC counterparts.
 
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