night currency/instructing question

Timbuff10

Timbuff10

Well-Known Member
Stupid question time...

So at the moment I am not night current. Is it acceptable for me to go up and do the 3 required takeoffs and landings with a private pilot that is night current?

Just wondering if that private pilot would be viewed as a passenger or as a pilot that isn't manipulating the controls. I think it is OK as long as I don't log it as PIC and the private pilot does... Seems to be a bit of a grey area but I think I have this right? Anyone agree?
 
Now I am not a CFI, but I would say that you cannot take him up. If you are not current, then I don't believe you can carry pax until current. On the reverse side if the guy was a CFI I would think you could go up becuase maybe he could log it as dual. My .02c as a non-cfi.....

anyone else....
 
hmm..

NO

YOU have to do the 3 T/G for night currency in the airplane..
You can go with him as a passenger if you want (since he is current).
But to fly as PIC of this particular cat/class airplane with passengers (that's whoever sits next to you besides a CFI during dual time), you need to have done 3 T/L at night as PIC in the last 90 days.
So if 3 months went by, you have to go alone before you can carry ppl.
 
... or you can go log some dual with a CFI....a little grey if you ask me
Since either way you have to pay for the flight..... :P
Sry.. ;)
 
Sure.

The private pilot can act as PIC, provided he is night current. You can be sole manipulator of the controls and log PIC. Gray? Perhaps. The most kosher solution is to regain your currency before flying with the private pilot.
 
fr8dog said:
YOU have to do the 3 T/G for night currency in the airplane.. ppl.
Click to expand...

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Please tell me that T/G isn't "Touch & Goes" . . .

for night currency, the Take-offs and Landings MUST be full stops.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Please tell me that T/G isn't "Touch & Goes" . . .

for night currency, the Take-offs and Landings MUST be full stops.
Click to expand...

im lazy...:p
and no....bouncing three times on a 10k strip does not qualify....at least by my FSDO standard.

i should have write S/G
:D
 
Seems like we have a little bit of a division here... I am starting to think it could be argued either way.

So you guys are saying that the only way you can get night current is to fly it solo or to find a CFI that is night current and log it as dual received...
 
Timbuff10 said:
So you guys are saying that the only way you can get night current is to fly it solo or to find a CFI that is night current and log it as dual received...
Click to expand...

That's what I'm inclined to say, but I don't have any regs to back it up. It just seems like the safest, most reasonable bet.

Is it really that much trouble to get current when solo? I did three stop and goes in 0.2 last night in order to keep my currency. That cost me $13.60.
 
Additionally, if I am night current, but my only night flying is with students and I let them all do the landings, will I lose my night currency? Seems a bit odd since I've got 5-10 night hours in the last 90 days...
 
Yo Tim-

Solo full stops for yourself. I had to handle this one several times as chief. Including for myself.

-Nick
 
Timbuff10 said:
Seems like we have a little bit of a division here... I am starting to think it could be argued either way.
Click to expand...

Straight from 61.57:

(b) Night takeoff and landing experience.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—
(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).


So, if you can ride along with somebody that is qualified to act as the PIC (i.e. Private pilot, CFI buddy, etc), you can do three full-stop landings (assuming, again, that the buddy is ACTING as PIC) and regain your currency.



 
hmmm....

I will agree with Lloyd, I guess I was thinking in context of students riding along. Looking at the reg (and not trying to split hairs), it doesn't prohibit a qualified person (acting as PIC) riding along. However, I'm not sure about a PPL (non CFI) able to be acting as PIC when flying with Tim (or any higher rated pilot). It seems most accident/incident investigations point to the highest rated pilot as PIC.

I say go solo, its fun (lets face it, CFIs don't usually get much solo time) and the safest (legally speaking) bet.
 
Yeah, I won't be going on that flight but after reading all this and re-reading 61.57 a half a dozen times I think I am on the side of it actually being legal and agreeing with Lloyd. One guy could be the PIC but not actually be manipulating the controls, he could be letting the passenger do the landing and be the sole manipulator. That being said, I can see arguments for either side. If the FAA is arguing it though, I could see them winning very easily. I think it is best to not even put yourself in that situation.

Nick, I remember asking you about this one a while back but I thought it had something to do with the insurance preventing it instead of the FARs?

Oh well, I need to go shoot some approaches soon anyways so I will probably kill two birds with one stone and do that at night.

FARs are fun!
 
:yeahthat: i agree..

Your local FSDO will tell you if it's ok to just get currency while somebody else is PIC...in a two-crew plane it's a no brainer but in a cessna, it's a little gray.
I would just go and have fun for 20 min...it's cheap.

On a related subject, Airnet Systems has a "SIC program" for new hires that allows low time pilots (less than 135 requirements) to fly right seat on a twin piston and build-up your total time that way towards FAR minimums.
So...you're in the plane...it's total time, the captain is acting PIC but the plane isn't two-crew nor is the operation.
When You land, you log it ! :)
FSDO approved this and says it's prefectly legal (and darn smart way to IOE people if you ask me)
 
fr8dog said:
Your local FSDO will tell you if it's ok to just get currency while somebody else is PIC...in a two-crew plane it's a no brainer but in a cessna, it's a little gray.
Click to expand...

You know, I'm not ever sure if there's any gray at all!

There's noplace in the regs that states that you have to gain that currency while acting as PIC. Now, if you start trying to "read into the regs"(this is what too many people do), you can create all sorts of assumptions about how it needs to be done.

Remember that the reg already lays down it's qualifiers!!

(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and
(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).
Click to expand...


If there were a requirement that the person act as PIC during those landings, they would add: "(iii) That person acted as PIC;".

That wasn't there - it simply states that the person muct be the sole manipulator of the controls.
 
Yeah I agree Lloyd. That is what I was thinking at the beginning but wasn't quite sure then.

Really, in the name of safety, and learning, let's say that two private pilots want to fly at night one is current and one is not. Why would the FAA want to prevent the current pilot from going up with the guy who is trying to get current? Not like that guy is causing a problem over there and if something goes wrong, the current guy would be more likely to catch an error.

Oh yeah, the reason why I started all this is not because I was trying to save a few bucks, I was going to fly with someone at a school that I am not checked out at thus I can't just go take the plane up for a quick half an hour to do some stop and goes. I just didn't feel like doing another checkout at another school. No biggie, we will go during the day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top