New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don't forget

J

Josh

Well-Known Member
New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forget

Don't forget. All those receiving training now will have to have some information on file now for 5 years to make the TSA happy. A big hassle, and waste of time.

Basically, citizens show a birth certificate, passport, or the like, and a photo ID. That is kept on file for 5 years.

Aliens (not the Roswell type
smile.gif
) show similar to above, plus pay $130, and fill out an 'application' for the TSA, send in some fingerprints, and a photo, and the FBO does some stuff as well.

A good quick outline at:

http://www.gleim.com/aviation/afs_program.php?afspfbo

Anyhow, I've dug through the interim rule over the last month or so, as I had a student here from Japan. Way I read it, is basically any training given (so I read that as any time I would sign as dual given in a logbook) requires this information be kept on file. Sucks for doing the side job here or there. Think just having all those people bring a birth cert, and photo ID to keep in the FBO file is the easiest way to go, as I don't carry around a copy machine with me in my flight bag usually.

I'm so glad were doing this though. Aviation will be so much more secure now that the bug smashers all have their birth date, and picture in some file cabinet an at FBO
cwm27.gif
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forget

So let me get this straight.

Someone walks into the flight school, "Hi, I was just driving by and I'd really like to try an intro flight right now. Got some time?".

And we're supposed to say "Sure! Let me just see your birth certificate and drivers license, make a copies of them, and keep them with me for the next five years."

Sounds like a great way to lose business.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forget

Well we must give credit to the TSA for finally taking these concrete steps to insure all of our safety.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight.

Someone walks into the flight school, "Hi, I was just driving by and I'd really like to try an intro flight right now. Got some time?".

And we're supposed to say "Sure! Let me just see your birth certificate and drivers license, make a copies of them, and keep them with me for the next five years."

Sounds like a great way to lose business.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, that is about how lame it has become as of tomorrow.

Of coure, if you choose not to consider that intro flight training, and not log it as such, I'd think you could be ok with not having to have the documents before the flight.
You'd think that the be a pilot program would be a little more pro-active in this, as they seem to be big on the $49 flight being a real lesson. Which if that practice continues... Jonny Law will be after all those criminal schools and cfis out there.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forget

We're doing just fine with our safety!

These new requirements are going to cost way too much to be measured!

Grrr
banghead.gif
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forget

Flight Training: Instruction received from a flight school in an aircraft or aircraft simulator. Flight training does not include recurrent training, ground training, a demonstration flight for marketing purposes, or any DOD/Coast Guard flight training.

This definition was from the article. At least an Intro won't require this crap!
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
Well we must give credit to the TSA for finally taking these concrete steps to insure all of our safety.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, please. This does absolutely nothing for safety...NONE! This is to make the public feel better, and that's all.

What will a 172 do in the hands of a terrorist?
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well we must give credit to the TSA for finally taking these concrete steps to insure all of our safety.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, please. This does absolutely nothing for safety...NONE! This is to make the public feel better, and that's all.

What will a 172 do in the hands of a terrorist?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fly into a structure, maybe kill a couple people.

This sh*t happens everyday with car accidents. 40,000+ pointless deaths a year and the govt seems to care two sh*ts about it. They try limit it, but are nowhere near prevention.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well we must give credit to the TSA for finally taking these concrete steps to insure all of our safety.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, please. This does absolutely nothing for safety...NONE! This is to make the public feel better, and that's all.

What will a 172 do in the hands of a terrorist?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fly into a structure, maybe kill a couple people.

This sh*t happens everyday with car accidents. 40,000+ pointless deaths a year and the govt seems to care two sh*ts about it. They try limit it, but are nowhere near prevention.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, but don't forget...we're in those "little airplanes"....
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

I was joking. If the TSA is the answer then it must have been a stupid question. Perhaps we can get this forum's resident screener to tell us how much safer this will make us.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

I'm waiting for the TSA to say we all need some stupid check like this to drive a car. I mean, even the crappiest little honda has more useful load than 99% of the GA planes being flown. I guess it must be the record of all those bombings with small planes that made the TSA jump on this. I mean, Oak city, oh wait, that wasn't a plane. Hmm. Madrid on 3/11, oh wait, that was a train. Oh well, gotta go after the threat of a small plane?
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

I have to equate this to ID checks at military bases...

Nothing like backing traffic up for an hour to check everyones ID when we [sarchasm] know that the terrorist wouldn't bother to get a legit looking ID. It makes us all safer [/sarchasm].

These new rules make the bad guys work a little harder, but THEY know the rules too and will make up someones background convincing enough that the TSA won't know the difference, other than they have an extra $130 in thier pocket.

once again... Grrrrr
banghead.gif
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight.

Someone walks into the flight school, "Hi, I was just driving by and I'd really like to try an intro flight right now. Got some time?".

And we're supposed to say "Sure! Let me just see your birth certificate and drivers license, make a copies of them, and keep them with me for the next five years."

[/ QUOTE ]Yup.

On the other hand, if you are a renegade Saudi prince and want to take a 737 up "just to see" if you might want to buy it (wink, wink, snicker, sniker), no problem at all. That kind of activity is specifically exempted from the rule.

Of course, instead of asking mom and pop flight schools and independent CFIs to do their job, the government =could= just wait for the student pilot certificate application (maybe even require one earlier), collect the information through the normal process and run it against the databases. Unless, of course, even 3 years =after= 911 they =still= can't do something that the 911 commission pointed to as a primary failure.

Don't like it? Well, decide is it's important enough or not. There's an election coming up.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
Flight Training: Instruction received from a flight school in an aircraft or aircraft simulator. Flight training does not include recurrent training, ground training, a demonstration flight for marketing purposes, or any DOD/Coast Guard flight training.

This definition was from the article. At least an Intro won't require this crap!

[/ QUOTE ]Yes it will (unless the rule changes).

A "demonstration flight for marketing purposes" is a flight with a potential airplane purchaser - marketing the sale of an airplane, =not= a demonstration flight for the purpose of marketing flight instruction. Intro flights are definitely flight training. Unless, of course you choose to treat them as a tour, in which case you need a medical valid for commercial privileges and you are part of a sanctioned drug testing program.

So, as I mentioned in my other post, Dad's birthday lesson in a 152 =will= require the records. The renegade Saudi prince's flight to check out how well a 737 "handles" will not.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
I was joking. If the TSA is the answer then it must have been a stupid question. Perhaps we can get this forum's resident screener to tell us how much safer this will make us.

[/ QUOTE ] If you're joking, you gotta use one of these --
cwm27.gif
-- or someone's liable to hurt you.
smirk.gif
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

TSA has posted some interpretive letters here:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResultsSimple.cfm

This is the site where public comments are made. If you scroll to today's entries you will see two items titled "Response" rather than "Comment". They are a series of letters that makes some interpretation changes.

I only looked at them briefly. Some are interesting, such as redefining training to include only instruction toward a new certificate or rating - so, for example, flight reviews and checkouts are no longer considered flight training.

Hopefully, these interpretations (and others) will be dealt with in an amendment to the rule itself rather than in a series of informal letters where the TSA can simple change its mind with no formal process at all.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
We're doing just fine with our safety!

These new requirements are going to cost way too much to be measured!

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen. I mean come ON! How do people learn to drive? Normally, their parents teach them. I know several parents I wouldn't get in a car with, and they're teaching their kids to drive the same way. At least flight instruction is regulated to being taught by professionals, and now it's being OVERLY regulated. What they don't realize is that a lot of people who wanted to learn to fly for the fun of it are now going to say "Nah, it's too much hassle," and it's going to cost the industry LOTS of money. Now, if that much money was lost in tax dollars, maybe they would understand. But since it's not DIRECTLY related to the government (or worse, SECURITY!), then they turn a deaf ear.

</rant>
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forget

[ QUOTE ]
Well we must give credit to the TSA for finally taking these concrete steps to insure all of our safety.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to the new police state of the USA, brought to you by Tom Ridge, John Ashcroft, and others who have gone overboard to attempt national security at the expense of its citizens rights. Ever read 1984?
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

[ QUOTE ]
Ever read 1984?

[/ QUOTE ]

That book has been banned. PLease turn any copies over to your local authorities.
 
Re: New TSA rule goes live on the 20th, don\'t forg

There was never a book writen called 1984, nor was there an author named George Orwell. This will be taken care of soon enough with some doublespeak from the ministry of truth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top