New student from another CFI

kevmor99

kevmor99

Well-Known Member
I just started working with a new student who was previously flying with another CFI. He has solo'd and has a logbook endorsement but no endorsement on his student pilot certificate (which is laminated, using a permanent marker should be okay, right?) Also, he has some endorsements done incorrectly such as for an airport >50nm but the endorsement used was for one within 25nm, and still nothing on the student pilot certificate for cross countries.

I'll see if he can get in touch with his previous instructors to get the right endorsements, but if he isn't able to, should I do anything else besides making it correct from now on?
 
I would go on a couple flights with the kid, go over all the maneuvers in 61.87 and list it all in his logbook. If Im okay with everything, then I would re endorse him for everything (meaning I give him a pre-solo knowledge test with endorsement, initial solo in the logbook, and write the endorsement on the SPC). I would much rather over endorse to cover me, than have him ramp checked on a solo...

No endorsement on his student pilot certificate? As far as I know thats a must for him to be legal to fly. I'd make sure he has it on there, even if it means ripping it out of the lamination.
 
I agree with everything tmccaghren17 wrote.

As far as the student certificate, he can get a new one from the FSDO or any DPE. The DPE may charge something for it, so if the FSDO is close, that would probably be easier. Just tell him to be sure to call ahead for an appointment.

It may be that he is on his second student certificate and his solo endorsement is on his first one. If that is the case, it is still valid. I've seen people present for a private pilot test with a fist full of student pilot certificates with different endorsements on each one. (They had almost made a career out of being a student pilot.)

If you ask a DPE to issue the student pilot certificate, he may give you a blank stare because it's pretty uncommon for them to do that. They are all authorized to do it, but a lot of them have never done it and don't carry the forms with them.

Also, assuming that his student pilot certificate that is laminated is also his medical, make sure he knows not to throw that away.
 
Houston said:
I agree with everything tmccaghren17 wrote.

As far as the student certificate, he can get a new one from the FSDO or any DPE. The DPE may charge something for it, so if the FSDO is close, that would probably be easier. Just tell him to be sure to call ahead for an appointment.

It may be that he is on his second student certificate and his solo endorsement is on his first one. If that is the case, it is still valid. I've seen people present for a private pilot test with a fist full of student pilot certificates with different endorsements on each one. (They had almost made a career out of being a student pilot.)

If you ask a DPE to issue the student pilot certificate, he may give you a blank stare because it's pretty uncommon for them to do that. They are all authorized to do it, but a lot of them have never done it and don't carry the forms with them.

Also, assuming that his student pilot certificate that is laminated is also his medical, make sure he knows not to throw that away.
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I have yet to find a DPE willing to issue a student pilot certificate - likely it will be a trip to the FSDO.

And yes, there are exceptions - students may hold another airman certificate, student certificate may have expired before the medical did (this was common in the recent past), may have gotten a new medical. Or they may have "lost" it, and just figured they could go to an AME to get another one (sans endorsements).

I have a lot of "career students," they seem to find all of the corner cases on endorsements....
 
kevmor99 said:
Is it valid if it's laminated and signed with a permanent pen, though?
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It is valid in fingerpaint on Saran Wrap if a DPE or the FAA is happy with it.

In practice, the exact wording of endorsements is not black and white. You have some latitude in how you want to write them, and the Feds have some latitude in what they will accept. If there is a question, that is something the CFI and FSDO/DPE can figure out between themselves. All on the same team and all, and it is everyone's job to pick up the phone when needed and ask....
 
kevmor99 said:
Is it valid if it's laminated and signed with a permanent pen, though?
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Yes, if it was signed before being laminated. Please don't ask me to show you the reference, but back when pilot certificates were paper, the FAA put out an opinion that it was okay to laminate them. They also wrote, "but sign them before laminating".

Here is a quote from FAA Order 8900.1, which is the inspector's handbook (the red font is the FAA's, not my emphasis).

5-196 PERSONAL POSSESSION OF PILOT CERTIFICATES. Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 61, § 61.3 requires that pilots of U.S. civil aircraft have a current pilot certificate in their personal possession when acting as a required pilot flight crewmember. This means that, to avoid the possibility of fraudulent use of another's pilot certificate, the pilot must be in possession of an original certificate, not a copy. The copy of a temporary certificate issued to an airman by the FAA or by a designated pilot examiner is acceptable; however, inspectors should check all temporary certificates for expiration dates.

NOTE: Airmen may either use clear laminating sheets to protect permanent FAA-issued certificates or have the certificates professionally laminated as long as the airman's signature is placed on the certificate before lamination. Without the signature, the certificate is not valid.
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drunkenbeagle said:
I have yet to find a DPE willing to issue a student pilot certificate - likely it will be a trip to the FSDO.

And yes, there are exceptions - students may hold another airman certificate, student certificate may have expired before the medical did (this was common in the recent past), may have gotten a new medical. Or they may have "lost" it, and just figured they could go to an AME to get another one (sans endorsements).

I have a lot of "career students," they seem to find all of the corner cases on endorsements....
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Odd, Most of the DPEs I've worked with had no problem giving out a replacement student pilot cert.
 
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