Need advice

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psalm91

New Member
Hello,

I have a dilemma and I'm wondering what you guys would do. I just had my (first ever) unsat during a 121 recurrent event. I had returned from a 3 month leave to do my recurrent eval, I got behind on the plane on a couple of occassions during the typical load up that you get in the sim and I was unsated (nothing to do with safety of flight, just forgot to make some callouts and goofed up programming one of the approaches). Just had an off day. We have a lot of busts going on lately with the feds jumpseating and not coincidentally, I had a fed jumpseating on my event.

Anyways, my dilemma is this: During the debrief the FAA guy mentioned that THIS unsat would NOT be a part of my permanent record, nor accessible via a PRIA. He said that this unsat would stay internal with the company I currently work for. He did stipulate that if I busted the recheck that it WOULD be reported to the FAA and would be part of my permanent record.

My question is this: I just got a part time job with a 135 operation. Given the risk associated with the requal (and it IS a risk - things are not *normal* in our training department with the feds crawling up our backsides), should I try again and risk busting and earning a permanent mark on my record, OR should I just resign and leave the unsat with my (soon to be ex) company? I don't plan on flying 121 anymore, but you never know, and I don't know if an airline who somehow managed to get my training record and see the unsat would freak out over the fact that I resigned rather than trying to requal again.

Truth be told, I would simply say that I got offered another position and that position would not allow me to work both places at the same time, so it was either stay with the company and requal or take the new job - and I chose to take the new job.

What would you do?
 
How soon would you be starting the new job? My knee jerk reaction would be to try to re-qualify and prove myself. Everyone has bad days and stuff happens... especially when the Feds are leaning over your company's shoulder. But if your leaving your company next week then it may not be feasable with all the other stress and issues associated with starting a new job and its not worth screwing up your new job for your old one.

Also a failed checkride is a skeleton in the closet... but its not a deal breaker. Everyone know stuff happens and were all human. Especially if you have been with this company for awhile and have a good performance record with them (which you said you have a perfect check record). Furthermore line checks and checkrides are relative to the person that gives them... as a current CFI with over 1000 Dual given in Miami I know this reallllyyyy well.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
How soon would you be starting the new job? My knee jerk reaction would be to try to re-qualify and prove myself. Everyone has bad days and stuff happens... especially when the Feds are leaning over your company's shoulder. But if your leaving your company next week then it may not be feasable with all the other stress and issues associated with starting a new job and its not worth screwing up your new job for your old one.

Also a failed checkride is a skeleton in the closet... but its not a deal breaker. Everyone know stuff happens and were all human. Especially if you have been with this company for awhile and have a good performance record with them (which you said you have a perfect check record). Furthermore line checks and checkrides are relative to the person that gives them... as a current CFI with over 1000 Dual given in Miami I know this reallllyyyy well.
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I start the job sooner than it would take for me to requal. Right now (and I'm not kidding) our training department is so backed up with people trying to requal from failed checking events that it may very well be two to three weeks before I can even start the requal process. I'll be starting the new job well before then. Your comment "... if you're leaving your company next week then it may not be feasable with all the other stress and issues associated with starting a new job and its not worth screwing up your new job for your old one." is EXACTLY along the lines that I'm thinking. I have never left a job on bad terms - my employment record is excellent, but there comes a time when the risk outweighs any perceivable benefits. Normally, I wouldn't hesitate to go through and do this checkride again - it's just that the apparent "crackdown" that the feds are doing on checkrides (I'm talking a failure rate in excess of 70% on *observed* rides) and some of the really stupid things people are busting for, leaves me really wondering about success. I get stressed enough as it is on a *normal* ride.

Thanks very much for your response.
 
To be honest, I have NEVER heard (in the last 2 years) Of a 121 training event that will stay off your pria if you bust, I would make 100% sure that it's clear before you make any choices. Just because the fed says it won't go on, doesn't mean much.

Not to mention, I've said this before, all the applications today ask "have you ever" failed a training/checking event. If you say no, and they get hold of it during PRIA, you're toast. At this point you really may be getting worried about a cat thats already out of the bag.

Honestly, I would prob. get myself requaled... but thats just me, and I can't really offer much more that personal opinion on this.
 
psalm91 said:
I start the job sooner than it would take for me to requal. Right now (and I'm not kidding) our training department is so backed up with people trying to requal from failed checking events that it may very well be two to three weeks before I can even start the requal process. I'll be starting the new job well before then. Your comment "... if you're leaving your company next week then it may not be feasable with all the other stress and issues associated with starting a new job and its not worth screwing up your new job for your old one." is EXACTLY along the lines that I'm thinking. I have never left a job on bad terms - my employment record is excellent, but there comes a time when the risk outweighs any perceivable benefits. Normally, I wouldn't hesitate to go through and do this checkride again - it's just that the apparent "crackdown" that the feds are doing on checkrides (I'm talking a failure rate in excess of 70% on *observed* rides) and some of the really stupid things people are busting for, leaves me really wondering about success. I get stressed enough as it is on a *normal* ride.

Thanks very much for your response.
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No problem, and if this new job is that good... I would just let it go.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
To be honest, I have NEVER heard (in the last 2 years) Of a 121 training event that will stay off your pria if you bust, I would make 100% sure that it's clear before you make any choices. Just because the fed says it won't go on, doesn't mean much.

Not to mention, I've said this before, all the applications today ask "have you ever" failed a training/checking event. If you say no, and they get hold of it during PRIA, you're toast. At this point you really may be getting worried about a cat thats already out of the bag.

Honestly, I would prob. get myself requaled... but thats just me, and I can't really offer much more that personal opinion on this.
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Well, I unsated from the position of non-flying pilot, so I *technically* wasn't the one being evaluated on the PC at the time, therefore I didn't technically fail the actual PC. That's why the FAA guy said what he said. Weird situation, I know.
 
psalm91 said:
Well, I unsated from the position of non-flying pilot, so I *technically* wasn't the one being evaluated on the PC at the time, therefore I didn't technically fail the actual PC. That's why the FAA guy said what he said. Weird situation, I know.
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During a pc you are evaluated on both pf /pm duties.

Honestly, sounds a bit "off" you don't get a free pass with the second one being at risk. Either the results of a pc are sat, unsat our discontinued. I would check with you flight standards dept, but I can promise you, if the faa found out that I gave a line check that was unsat and didn't turn in the work to keep it off pria, the faa would be all over that. People would, and have lost jobs here for that sort of thing,esp post 3407.

I would be very careful, and make sure you have it in writing before you believe that it will not go on your pria.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
During a pc you are evaluated on both pf /pm duties.

Honestly, sounds a bit "off" you don't get a free pass with the second one being at risk. Either the results of a pc are sat, unsat our discontinued. I would check with you flight standards dept, but I can promise you, if the faa found out that I gave a line check that was unsat and didn't turn in the work to keep it off pria, the faa would be all over that. People would, and have lost jobs here for that sort of thing,esp post 3407.

I would be very careful, and make sure you have it in writing before you believe that it will not go on your pria.
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I hear ya. I was very careful to get all of the information I could about the implications of my unsat event during the debrief. Both the check airman and the fed were in complete agreement about this not being a reported unsat (to the FAA). I'm trying to get verification from other sources on this (training department heads, etc.) and I asked another check airman about this as well. He said the only reason he could think of for the reasoning of the fed and my check airman was that our check airmen cannot administer two checking events simultaneously and the only other administrative way to get me additional training was to do an unsat training report. I will do what you said about getting this in writing.
 
I guess the real question is this: How do you guys think a prospective employer would view leaving a company with an unsat that wasn't requaled (because I left for another company), vs. a double failure (worst case scenario). It's a lesser of two evils choice, and I want to make the choice that haunts me the least :(
 
psalm91 said:
I guess the real question is this: How do you guys think a prospective employer would view leaving a company with an unsat that wasn't requaled (because I left for another company), vs. a double failure (worst case scenario). It's a lesser of two evils choice, and I want to make the choice that haunts me the least :(
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study up, go back and get your sat. You dont want that lingering over your head even if you are the only one that knows about it.
 
Even if its not on pria, about every application ive seen says something to the effect of "have you ever busted a checkride for rating or 121. So you need to pass it again, and then talk about how you improved from the experience. If you dont retake it, in my eyes, it would look like they forced you to resign from it.
 
So you guys who are thinking requal - you have a start date with your new company that will have to be pushed back in order to requal with a company that you are going to turn around and resign from a month or two later. You would call your new employer and tell them that you usated a checking event and need time to requal, and that is the reason you need to push back the start date with them. Just want to make sure I'm understanding this, because it is exactly what I would have to do.
 
Kingairer said:
Even if its not on pria, about every application ive seen says something to the effect of "have you ever busted a checkride for rating or 121. So you need to pass it again, and then talk about how you improved from the experience. If you dont retake it, in my eyes, it would look like they forced you to resign from it.
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Yeah I could see that being a question. It's really a no win situation; either I push back the start date of the new company I'm working for (which will definately raise some eyebrows, especially when I explain why) or I let my current job go without requalifying and potentially raise some eyebrows that way too with someone I apply with down the road. The forced resignation thing can be verfied as a "NO" (as in no, I wasn't forced to resign), but I definately see being asked questions about it. I haven't been in this industry long enough to know how employers would view this; I'm sure I'm not the only one who has come across this kind of situation (leaving an old company for a new one with an unresolved, [non-forced termination / resignation] matter with the old company).
 
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