Timbuff10
Well-Known Member
I have been meaning to write one of these for a while now. I know how valuable these posts are for folks that are thinking about making the decision to attend ATP. In making my decision over the past few years I was very eager to read about experiences that others had while at ATP so I figure now its time to to give back. Anyway here we go...
My story started in 2001, I was finishing up college at CU-Boulder and was looking at going to Comair or Pan Am until 9/11 happened. Given the current situation the industry was in and after finding jetcareers (thank you Doug, thank you, thank you) I decided those type of schools were not for me. I instead got a job working at Frontier Airlines and started working on my private here in Denver at McAir aviation until I could figure out what exactly I wanted to do.
I chose ATP last summer and reluctantly decided to quit a good job at Frontier Airlines, leave my family and Colorado, and move down to Jacksonville. After getting settled in the apartments the flying started right away. We had a class of about 10 people seeking their private. We all showed up every day at about 08:00 and the average day kept us there till around 16:00 or so. Basically there were 4 instructors and usually two or three would be up flying while one or two were in the classroom teaching us ground school. After you solo, everything goes real quick after that. You do the cross countries (the kite) which are a lot of fun, the solo cross countries, and then some check ride prep and you are a real live pilot. The rest of the 85 hours are spent flying IFR around the southeast pretty much. My first IFR flight was evacuating airplanes before a hurricane rolled through. Talk about being thrown to the wolves! It was a bit scary but a great learning experience at the same time. Some of the places I flew to building my PIC time were Atlanta, down and up the east and west sides of Florida, Pensacola, Macon, and Orlando. In all I would say their Private program was pretty fun and I learned a lot as I took it very seriously. The private program is very intense though and I would recommend getting some flying experience before you enroll just so you know what you are getting yourself into.
Here are a few photos I took during the private program:
172 at Jesup- Part of the long x/c flight
Terminal at Waycross-get the glass bottle coke!
I then went back home to Colorado for a few weeks to be with my fiancé and the rest of my family. In September I started the 90-day program in Dallas at Arlington’s airport. I met my instructor (Adam) and we hit it off well. He showed me the planes we would be flying and they were all new Seminoles which was awesome! I then met my partner for the program and he was also from Colorado and came into the program with a ton of hours already. We started working on the Multi-engine stuff which lasted about a week leading up to the multi-private check ride which I passed with no huge problems. Basically understand P.A.S.T. and know how to keep that live engine tamed and you will be OK.
After the first check ride I locked myself in my room for days at a time studying for all the written tests. I did fine passing all of them and it was such a relief to get them out of the way and just focus on the instrument portion of the program. We spent about 3 weeks just going over all the instrument stuff and logging about 35 hours in the sim which was a great learning tool. We then started flying the plane and shooting approaches and putting everything to a practical use. The required cross countries were fun as we went down to Houston, and all the way up to Wichita making a few stops along the way. This is the portion of the program that goes the slowest as you don't do a whole lot of flying, lots of book work and sim stuff here. Adam prepared us more for the check ride and I ended up flying really well when check ride day finally came around. The instrument check ride in Dallas is pretty quick as the three airports you shoot approaches at are basically right next to each other but be sure that you will be working your butt off every second of that check ride!
Photo of the seminole I did alot of my instrument training in:
N253AT after shooting some approaches into Waco, Texas
After you get the instrument knocked out, your cross countries start up. Flying from the right seat for the first time was an interesting flight but I picked it up after a few hours and then it’s no big deal really. My partner and I started the cross countries and made it all the way up to Chicago (my most fun trip of the whole program), as far west as Roswell, NM, and of course out to Florida. Some of the other cities we hit were Lamar CO, Newton KS, Springfield MO, Memphis TN, Atlanta GA, Tampa FL, and Houston TX. The cross countries were fun at first but after spending the night away from your home base a few times, I was happy with just doing the out and backs like Roswell. Sleeping in your own bed is always a bonus! The cross country phase of the program is really where you learn how to fly the plane. You get to do all kinds of different approaches, fly through clouds and see some amazing stuff. I suppose it is a lot like flying for an airline minus the revenue folks in the back. Point is, the cross country portion is what makes the program great and learning to fly with a lot of different pilots teaches you a great deal too!
Some photos on cross country flights:
Roswell's airliner graveyard. The American 767-200 fleet!
Sunset
Instrument flying!
After the cross countries are done, you start prepping for your commercial check ride. You spend a few flights coming back to the maneuvers again and polishing them off. I think of all my check rides in the Seminole the commercial was by far the easiest as I was a master of the Seminole by then.
After the Commercial, my partner and I were then shipped off to Jacksonville for CFI School. They set us up with a room at one of the extended stay places and Walt taught our CFI School. Nothing like having the guy that wrote the FARs explain them to you. Walt did a very good job and I was very happy with everything we learned there on the ground at CFI School. The flying portion is where I struggled a bit though. In Jacksonville the CFI flight training was done in the old Seminoles and for some reason I just flew horribly while I was down there. I think I was beginning to suffer a bit of burnout? Sometimes you just need a day off. I couldn't do a good steep turn to save my life on one flight. We also did our spin training in the 172 which was a blast though. I was a bit nervous going into it at first but once you do one, they are just plain old FUN! My MEI check ride came very fast and even though I didn't feel like I was ready for it, I went in and dominated that check ride. I was my most nervous on this check ride (probably because it was so expensive) but as soon as I sat down it was time to dominate. The oral was long but fair. The examiner got into things just deep enough where he could teach me something. I learned a great deal from this oral which lasted about 6 hours. The flight was great, I actually had fun on it. He had me teach steep turns (thank god) and I was GOLD on all the rest of the maneuvers. I left Tampa that night as a Certified Multi-Engine Flight Instructor and really felt like I was on top of the world!
When I got back to Jacksonville, my partner and I got to fly the Citation from Jacksonville to Dallas with a stop in Meridian Miss. Most people get all up-tight about flying the jet but I was there for fun. The jet ride is kind of like a bonus for doing the program. Don't think you will know how to fly a Citation when you are done with this flight; it is really just an intro to turbine aircraft. I got to take off after getting all the callouts down and off we went taking a jet into the clouds! That was a real kick in the pants too! It was cool to be up in the flight levels with actual airliners cruising by. A few hours later I shot an ILS and did an ultra smooth landing.
Photo of the Jet:
I flew that thing!!!
After the Jetride, I moved on to the Instrument Instructor training. Basically you get two hours of shooting approaches into local airports. This is where I got a big head in the program. I went into this check ride like I had already passed. The oral went OK but I think the DE could tell I should have been a bit more prepared. We went out for our flight and the winds were picking up as the day went on. I was thinking about canceling the flight portion of the check ride as the winds were forecasted to be about 40kts at 2000' but only about 15kts at the sfc. Well I was a commercial pilot and a flight instructor and all so winds don't bother me right? Ha! We took off heading south in the bumps and the DE pointed out that we were only showing a ground speed of 76 kts and my airspeed indicator was showing 135. At the time I didn't think it was that big of a deal but now that I do the math that is a 59 knot headwind we are flying into... YIKES!! When forecasts are wrong other things usually go wrong too. I didn't quite pick up on his hint though as I wasn’t thinking far enough ahead of the aircraft, I mean I had airline tickets booked the next day to head home for Christmas and I didn't want to have to do the rest of the check ride when I got back. I kept on going south into the wind until I got to the IAF where I did a 180 degree turn. Guess what, that headwind was now a tailwind that I wasn't compensating for. Well let’s just say that was the fastest approach I had ever flown. The wind turned into a pretty good crosswind as I got lower and it was just sloppy. Right as I went missed I peeked out of the foggles and the airport was right there but it was a bad approach. The rest of the check ride wasn't much better and in the end I was informed that the performance was not satisfactory. Was it good enough to pass an instrument check ride, the DE and I both agreed it was but as an instrument instructor I should have made some different decisions. As big as my head was earlier in the day I was that depressed after the flight. In the end though I think I learned the most from this flight out of any other flight I had ever done. Overconfidence can be just as bad as incompetence! Anyway I hit the books some more and after Christmas went up in better weather and flew a great re-check! I guess I can look at it as I ended up getting an extra two hours in the Seminole for a recheck fee of $150.
Well the "Double-I" ends the Seminole portion of the program. Now it was off to the Cessna 172N. Ha, flying this thing after the Seminole was like flying a toy. After remembering how to land a 172 and doing a couple 3 point landings I was doing great in the 172 and the dreaded "power off 180 landings" were easy. I missed two of the first 4 that I attempted but after that I think I nailed about 10 in a row over the next few flights. The rest of the single engine commercial maneuvers come really easy once you see them done. Flying the Cessna was fun and not nearly as much work as a twin. Did the commercial single check ride and other than a harder than desired landing on the short field (right in the middle of the thousand footers I might add) that ride went very well.
Next up was the CFI single add on which is pretty much the same thing as the previous check ride except you fly this one from the right seat. Basically since you just flew the commercial and showed the examiner that you know what you are doing, he makes sure you can actually fly from the right seat and then you spend the rest of the check ride getting some tips on how to teach in the plane. Teaching the subtle things that are not in the PTS is important too! We came back to Arlington with a graceful touchdown and with that landing I was done with ATP's 90-day Airline Career Pilot Program! WOOOHOOOO!
Photo of the 172 I did my last two rides in:
The ATP-Dallas, Cessna 172
In the end I was a CFI, CFII, and MEI with high altitude and high performance endorsements. I logged 132.2 hours of multi engine time in NEW Seminoles (actually about 5 hours of that was in the old Seminoles and three hours of it was in the Citation) I also logged (including the private program) 93.2 hours of single engine time in 172s.
Having shared all that, I will throw out some warnings. Their program is not for everyone. Scheduling can be frustrating at times. They do the best they can with what they have but sometimes things just don't work out perfectly and you must be understanding. My 90-day program stretched into about 110 days or so due to some really bad weather and the holidays mixed in. You also really need to be able to focus and have good, no scratch that, GREAT study habits. There was about 17 days there where I did nothing but study for writtens and other things. Early on in the program I spent about as much time at the local library as I did at the apartment. You really have to be able to take on a lot of responsibility and study on your own! Best bet is to get as many of the writtens done before arriving.
That being said, Adam and all the instructors always did a great job of answering questions that we had. Many thanks go out to the instructors - Adam, Captain Bob, Pete, Smokey, Jason, and Keith. I think they are all flying for Express Jet now?
I thought about instructing at ATP but in the end I really just wanted to be back home in Colorado with my fiancé. I am sure working for ATP would have been great but I managed to be lucky enough to get a great CFI job here in Denver with the best Cessna Pilot Center in the country and I love it so far. I was even lucky enough to get a call from one of the ATP owners asking if I was interested in a CFI job there but I declined and thanked them as I am happy here in Denver right now.
I hope this helps some of you guys out who are trying to decide on which route you want to take. ATP delivers on its promise and will work with you to get you done. As long as they see that you are putting forth your best effort, everything should work out just fine. You just have to make sure and put in the effort! Do your research and talk to as many people as you can. I really think ATP is a good place to go if you need something fast paced but at the same time don’t forget your local FBOs either! They are a great place to start and at least get exposed to flying!
Last but not least, here is a link to the rest of the photos I took at ATP and managed to get online.
ATP photos on airliners.net
Enjoy, and feel free to ask questions!
My story started in 2001, I was finishing up college at CU-Boulder and was looking at going to Comair or Pan Am until 9/11 happened. Given the current situation the industry was in and after finding jetcareers (thank you Doug, thank you, thank you) I decided those type of schools were not for me. I instead got a job working at Frontier Airlines and started working on my private here in Denver at McAir aviation until I could figure out what exactly I wanted to do.
I chose ATP last summer and reluctantly decided to quit a good job at Frontier Airlines, leave my family and Colorado, and move down to Jacksonville. After getting settled in the apartments the flying started right away. We had a class of about 10 people seeking their private. We all showed up every day at about 08:00 and the average day kept us there till around 16:00 or so. Basically there were 4 instructors and usually two or three would be up flying while one or two were in the classroom teaching us ground school. After you solo, everything goes real quick after that. You do the cross countries (the kite) which are a lot of fun, the solo cross countries, and then some check ride prep and you are a real live pilot. The rest of the 85 hours are spent flying IFR around the southeast pretty much. My first IFR flight was evacuating airplanes before a hurricane rolled through. Talk about being thrown to the wolves! It was a bit scary but a great learning experience at the same time. Some of the places I flew to building my PIC time were Atlanta, down and up the east and west sides of Florida, Pensacola, Macon, and Orlando. In all I would say their Private program was pretty fun and I learned a lot as I took it very seriously. The private program is very intense though and I would recommend getting some flying experience before you enroll just so you know what you are getting yourself into.
Here are a few photos I took during the private program:
172 at Jesup- Part of the long x/c flight
Terminal at Waycross-get the glass bottle coke!
I then went back home to Colorado for a few weeks to be with my fiancé and the rest of my family. In September I started the 90-day program in Dallas at Arlington’s airport. I met my instructor (Adam) and we hit it off well. He showed me the planes we would be flying and they were all new Seminoles which was awesome! I then met my partner for the program and he was also from Colorado and came into the program with a ton of hours already. We started working on the Multi-engine stuff which lasted about a week leading up to the multi-private check ride which I passed with no huge problems. Basically understand P.A.S.T. and know how to keep that live engine tamed and you will be OK.
After the first check ride I locked myself in my room for days at a time studying for all the written tests. I did fine passing all of them and it was such a relief to get them out of the way and just focus on the instrument portion of the program. We spent about 3 weeks just going over all the instrument stuff and logging about 35 hours in the sim which was a great learning tool. We then started flying the plane and shooting approaches and putting everything to a practical use. The required cross countries were fun as we went down to Houston, and all the way up to Wichita making a few stops along the way. This is the portion of the program that goes the slowest as you don't do a whole lot of flying, lots of book work and sim stuff here. Adam prepared us more for the check ride and I ended up flying really well when check ride day finally came around. The instrument check ride in Dallas is pretty quick as the three airports you shoot approaches at are basically right next to each other but be sure that you will be working your butt off every second of that check ride!
Photo of the seminole I did alot of my instrument training in:
N253AT after shooting some approaches into Waco, Texas
After you get the instrument knocked out, your cross countries start up. Flying from the right seat for the first time was an interesting flight but I picked it up after a few hours and then it’s no big deal really. My partner and I started the cross countries and made it all the way up to Chicago (my most fun trip of the whole program), as far west as Roswell, NM, and of course out to Florida. Some of the other cities we hit were Lamar CO, Newton KS, Springfield MO, Memphis TN, Atlanta GA, Tampa FL, and Houston TX. The cross countries were fun at first but after spending the night away from your home base a few times, I was happy with just doing the out and backs like Roswell. Sleeping in your own bed is always a bonus! The cross country phase of the program is really where you learn how to fly the plane. You get to do all kinds of different approaches, fly through clouds and see some amazing stuff. I suppose it is a lot like flying for an airline minus the revenue folks in the back. Point is, the cross country portion is what makes the program great and learning to fly with a lot of different pilots teaches you a great deal too!
Some photos on cross country flights:
Roswell's airliner graveyard. The American 767-200 fleet!
Sunset
Instrument flying!
After the cross countries are done, you start prepping for your commercial check ride. You spend a few flights coming back to the maneuvers again and polishing them off. I think of all my check rides in the Seminole the commercial was by far the easiest as I was a master of the Seminole by then.
After the Commercial, my partner and I were then shipped off to Jacksonville for CFI School. They set us up with a room at one of the extended stay places and Walt taught our CFI School. Nothing like having the guy that wrote the FARs explain them to you. Walt did a very good job and I was very happy with everything we learned there on the ground at CFI School. The flying portion is where I struggled a bit though. In Jacksonville the CFI flight training was done in the old Seminoles and for some reason I just flew horribly while I was down there. I think I was beginning to suffer a bit of burnout? Sometimes you just need a day off. I couldn't do a good steep turn to save my life on one flight. We also did our spin training in the 172 which was a blast though. I was a bit nervous going into it at first but once you do one, they are just plain old FUN! My MEI check ride came very fast and even though I didn't feel like I was ready for it, I went in and dominated that check ride. I was my most nervous on this check ride (probably because it was so expensive) but as soon as I sat down it was time to dominate. The oral was long but fair. The examiner got into things just deep enough where he could teach me something. I learned a great deal from this oral which lasted about 6 hours. The flight was great, I actually had fun on it. He had me teach steep turns (thank god) and I was GOLD on all the rest of the maneuvers. I left Tampa that night as a Certified Multi-Engine Flight Instructor and really felt like I was on top of the world!
When I got back to Jacksonville, my partner and I got to fly the Citation from Jacksonville to Dallas with a stop in Meridian Miss. Most people get all up-tight about flying the jet but I was there for fun. The jet ride is kind of like a bonus for doing the program. Don't think you will know how to fly a Citation when you are done with this flight; it is really just an intro to turbine aircraft. I got to take off after getting all the callouts down and off we went taking a jet into the clouds! That was a real kick in the pants too! It was cool to be up in the flight levels with actual airliners cruising by. A few hours later I shot an ILS and did an ultra smooth landing.
Photo of the Jet:
I flew that thing!!!
After the Jetride, I moved on to the Instrument Instructor training. Basically you get two hours of shooting approaches into local airports. This is where I got a big head in the program. I went into this check ride like I had already passed. The oral went OK but I think the DE could tell I should have been a bit more prepared. We went out for our flight and the winds were picking up as the day went on. I was thinking about canceling the flight portion of the check ride as the winds were forecasted to be about 40kts at 2000' but only about 15kts at the sfc. Well I was a commercial pilot and a flight instructor and all so winds don't bother me right? Ha! We took off heading south in the bumps and the DE pointed out that we were only showing a ground speed of 76 kts and my airspeed indicator was showing 135. At the time I didn't think it was that big of a deal but now that I do the math that is a 59 knot headwind we are flying into... YIKES!! When forecasts are wrong other things usually go wrong too. I didn't quite pick up on his hint though as I wasn’t thinking far enough ahead of the aircraft, I mean I had airline tickets booked the next day to head home for Christmas and I didn't want to have to do the rest of the check ride when I got back. I kept on going south into the wind until I got to the IAF where I did a 180 degree turn. Guess what, that headwind was now a tailwind that I wasn't compensating for. Well let’s just say that was the fastest approach I had ever flown. The wind turned into a pretty good crosswind as I got lower and it was just sloppy. Right as I went missed I peeked out of the foggles and the airport was right there but it was a bad approach. The rest of the check ride wasn't much better and in the end I was informed that the performance was not satisfactory. Was it good enough to pass an instrument check ride, the DE and I both agreed it was but as an instrument instructor I should have made some different decisions. As big as my head was earlier in the day I was that depressed after the flight. In the end though I think I learned the most from this flight out of any other flight I had ever done. Overconfidence can be just as bad as incompetence! Anyway I hit the books some more and after Christmas went up in better weather and flew a great re-check! I guess I can look at it as I ended up getting an extra two hours in the Seminole for a recheck fee of $150.
Well the "Double-I" ends the Seminole portion of the program. Now it was off to the Cessna 172N. Ha, flying this thing after the Seminole was like flying a toy. After remembering how to land a 172 and doing a couple 3 point landings I was doing great in the 172 and the dreaded "power off 180 landings" were easy. I missed two of the first 4 that I attempted but after that I think I nailed about 10 in a row over the next few flights. The rest of the single engine commercial maneuvers come really easy once you see them done. Flying the Cessna was fun and not nearly as much work as a twin. Did the commercial single check ride and other than a harder than desired landing on the short field (right in the middle of the thousand footers I might add) that ride went very well.
Next up was the CFI single add on which is pretty much the same thing as the previous check ride except you fly this one from the right seat. Basically since you just flew the commercial and showed the examiner that you know what you are doing, he makes sure you can actually fly from the right seat and then you spend the rest of the check ride getting some tips on how to teach in the plane. Teaching the subtle things that are not in the PTS is important too! We came back to Arlington with a graceful touchdown and with that landing I was done with ATP's 90-day Airline Career Pilot Program! WOOOHOOOO!
Photo of the 172 I did my last two rides in:
The ATP-Dallas, Cessna 172
In the end I was a CFI, CFII, and MEI with high altitude and high performance endorsements. I logged 132.2 hours of multi engine time in NEW Seminoles (actually about 5 hours of that was in the old Seminoles and three hours of it was in the Citation) I also logged (including the private program) 93.2 hours of single engine time in 172s.
Having shared all that, I will throw out some warnings. Their program is not for everyone. Scheduling can be frustrating at times. They do the best they can with what they have but sometimes things just don't work out perfectly and you must be understanding. My 90-day program stretched into about 110 days or so due to some really bad weather and the holidays mixed in. You also really need to be able to focus and have good, no scratch that, GREAT study habits. There was about 17 days there where I did nothing but study for writtens and other things. Early on in the program I spent about as much time at the local library as I did at the apartment. You really have to be able to take on a lot of responsibility and study on your own! Best bet is to get as many of the writtens done before arriving.
That being said, Adam and all the instructors always did a great job of answering questions that we had. Many thanks go out to the instructors - Adam, Captain Bob, Pete, Smokey, Jason, and Keith. I think they are all flying for Express Jet now?
I thought about instructing at ATP but in the end I really just wanted to be back home in Colorado with my fiancé. I am sure working for ATP would have been great but I managed to be lucky enough to get a great CFI job here in Denver with the best Cessna Pilot Center in the country and I love it so far. I was even lucky enough to get a call from one of the ATP owners asking if I was interested in a CFI job there but I declined and thanked them as I am happy here in Denver right now.
I hope this helps some of you guys out who are trying to decide on which route you want to take. ATP delivers on its promise and will work with you to get you done. As long as they see that you are putting forth your best effort, everything should work out just fine. You just have to make sure and put in the effort! Do your research and talk to as many people as you can. I really think ATP is a good place to go if you need something fast paced but at the same time don’t forget your local FBOs either! They are a great place to start and at least get exposed to flying!
Last but not least, here is a link to the rest of the photos I took at ATP and managed to get online.
ATP photos on airliners.net
Enjoy, and feel free to ask questions!
