Multi engine instrument instructor

av8tr1

av8tr1

"Never tell me the odds!"
Having a debate with a fellow instructor. Is there such a thing as a specific rating for Multi engine "instrument" instructor rating?

Can a pilot with a CFI-I airplane (But not CFI) with a MEL rating teach instruments in a MEL airplane? Or is there something specific to teaching instruments in a multiengine airplane beyond the normal CFI-I rating.

I know one can teach instruments in a SEL with just a CFI-I but not a primary student. Does the same apply to ME ops. Can one get a CFI-I and teach "just" instruments in both SEL and MEL airplanes or are they limited to just teaching instruments in a SEL without some specific instructor rating?
 
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No separate rating should be required
MEI - teach in multi
CFII - teach instrument

Getting instrument in multi in kind of an expensive way to do it though
 
BigZ said:
No separate rating should be required
MEI - teach in multi
CFII - teach instrument

Getting instrument in multi in kind of an expensive way to do it though
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MEI = "Multi engine instructor" not Multi engine instrument"?
 
av8tr1 said:
MEI = "Multi engine instructor" not Multi engine instrument"?
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Correct
Same thing when you have an instrument rating it's "Instrument Airplane", you don't need a separate for ASEL/ASES and for AM (EL/ES) you only need to demonstrate one engine approach to not have "VFR only" limitation in your multi
 
Ok so if one has a CFI-I one can then teach instruments "but only instruments" in both single and multi engine airplanes with any student who has at least a private pilot certificate in a single engine or multi engine airplane. That was my understanding as well.

Since posting this I have been told there is a opinion letter that says otherwise but it has not yet been provided. I will post it as soon as I get it.
 
av8tr1 said:
This may be the interpretation that was alluded to and it does seem to clearly say its No bueno to instruct instruments as a CFI-I without a CFI. If correct and hasn't been rescinded I know a chit ton of students (and a CFI) who may be in trouble. As well as a DPE who has been letting this through.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2012/beard - (2012) legal interpretation.pdf
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The above says that CFI-G can't instruct in helicopters and CFI/I-H can't instruct in fixed wing sim
The above does not show not being able to reach instrument in a multi if you hold CFII and MEI but no CFI
 
BigZ said:
The above says that CFI-G can't instruct in helicopters and CFI/I-H can't instruct in fixed wing sim
The above does not show not being able to reach instrument in a multi if you hold CFII and MEI but no CFI
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Ah! I see it now. Ok so my original understanding is correct based on this letter. Let me see if the guy who told me otherwise can produce something different. I am not sure this is the letter of interpretation he was referring too.
 
You would need a MEI as you can't teach single engine approaches (In a twin engine airplane). A MEI allows you to teach single engine stuff (in a twin engine airplane) in short.

So if you had a MEI and CFII you could teach all Multi engine stuff and all Instrument stuff in multi engine aircraft. You could also teach PPL or higher in single engine aircraft instrument stuff.
 
I believe the letter of interpretation is the Grayson letter. Essentially you can't do much in the air if you only have CFII. There used to be people giving flight instruction to someone in pursuit of an instrument rating and they only had CFII and no CFI or MEI... and that's no good after the FAA published that letter.

Edit: Please don't ever believe something just because a DPE said so
 
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61.195 is what matters.

(c)Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument training for the issuance of an instrument rating, a type rating not limited to VFR, or the instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates must hold an instrument rating on his or her pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft used for the training provided.

The important part of that is that they must hold a CFI in the category in class they are teaching instruments in. This changed a few years ago and closed the loophole that allowed CFII only to teach instruments
 
cadbury said:
I have an interesting question pertaining to MEI.

Is there such thing as MEI (VFR)?
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A CFI or MEI can teach instrument flight, but not for the purposes of an instrument rating. Recall that student pilots need 3 hrs of IR flight to get a PPL under part 61, but it doesn't take a CFII to give that training. The difference is if you are a pilot seeking an instrument rating, you must get the required training from an authorized instructor (i.e. CFII).
 
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