Military Pilots - Are they always "better" pilots?

C150J

C150J

Well-Known Member
I think some of us have an inferiority complex when it comes to former military aviators. I'm looking to those that have been there to chime in, as well as those pro's who've shared a cockpit with prior service folks. I am fairly confident that the military does a great job of getting people ready to fly complex equipment in little time, but I'm curious about the differences between a 10,000 hour civilian-trained airline pilot and one that was shot off carriers. Is there any real disparity at that point (besides the stories each tells in cruise!).

I realize that certain TYPES of flying can only be seen via the military (low-level NVG helo ops, etc.), but I'm interested in any differences once everyone's been in a commercial airliner for ten years or so.

Note: I am just curious... not trying to make ANY points here.
 
In a word, no. In fact sometimes they are astonishingly poor pilots given the missions they've been flying. Which I guess shows that military flying and standards can be as forgiving as cilivilan.
 
I asked my Dad this one time. He's been civilian the whole way and has been with AA for 20+ years with 20,000ish hours last I checked. He said something to the extent that the military folks do get the best training and are typically great pilots, but as far as he's concerned flying a fighter or almost any military jet does not put any of them at an advantage flying a B767. Basically, my Dad's been flying people around in civilian jets for 20 years. It's tough to beat that experience when your current job is flying people around in civilian jets.

That said, he has recommended that I go military if it's what I really want to do (it is). To each his own I guess.
 
Speaking as a 20-year AF pilot and experienced instructor, the answer is, "not necessarily!" I've flown with some really great pilots with really good judgment and great hands. And I've flown with knuckleheads.


mhcasey said:
I asked my Dad this one time. He's been civilian the whole way and has been with AA for 20+ years with 20,000ish hours last I checked. He said something to the extent that the military folks do get the best training and are typically great pilots, but as far as he's concerned flying a fighter or almost any military jet does not put any of them at an advantage flying a B767.
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Absolutely correct.

The main thing the military gets you is a LOT of great training and high performance aircraft time in a short period. So a military pilot at the 3 yr point has over 1000 hours, all of which is ME Turbine. Those that do things smart continue to improve their skills by learning all they can and pushing themselves to get better. Others just sit on their butts and wait for the post-military gravy train to roll. We get all kinds.
 
Fly4Pay said:
Speaking as a 20-year AF pilot and experienced instructor, the answer is, "not necessarily!" I've flown with some really great pilots with really good judgment and great hands. And I've flown with knuckleheads.
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That's it, folks.

I've flown with mostly military pilots over the last ten years. 99.999% of the guys are fantastic to fly with and great sticks, but there are a few that could use a little remedial training, just like everyone else regardless of background.

It's usually the former Marines... I'm kidding I'm kidding! :)

Most of my homies are usually former Navy or AF reserve pilots. I'm not sure how that worked out.

At least at my airline, there's mutual respect for one another because no matter what you did in a previous life, you're a Southernjets pilot now, first and foremost. Do your job to the best of your abilities and show up to "de brief" on the long layovers.

Besides, all that civilian versus military and branch versus branch is for noobies.
 
Well, there's the occasional "Geez, that was a SAC moment" or "It's Marine friendly" but by in large, at least out west in SLC I didn't hear any of that stuff at all.

My freshman year at Southernjets, yes, but as the civilian:military mix balanced over the years it's changed.
 
I guess I've got the "trifecta"...

I've flown in the military, active & reserve; helicopter, prop and jet...

I've flown for a commuter airline...

I've flown for 2 major/legacy airlines (3 if you count Piedmont - the real one!)...

My answer-








Drumroll please...


































In general, there is no difference in military vs. civilian pilots once they get to the point they are ready to be hired at a "major" airline.

The 2000 hour military aviator has had intensive instruction and experience in high-performance aircraft in which she/he has been constantly and closely evaluated/scrutinized for years. Unless in MAC (or AMC or whatever the hell they are calling themselves these days...) they haven't been hauling people, but really it's just a new mission, right?

The 2000-5000+ hour civilian pilot has done a (hopefully) wide range of flying in increasingly complex equipment in all sorts of weather and circumstances. She/he has been hauling people for some of that time, probably with Part 121 PIC time so that's a known quantity.

It really boils down to the individual...

Believe it or not, the airlines do make hiring mistakes, that's why there is a probation year. I've seen both military and civilian pilots fired in their 1st year because they couldn't do the job...


Some of the best captains I've flown with have been civilian trained.

Some of the best captains I've flown with have been military trained.

Some of the worst pilots I've flown with have been civlilian trained.

Some of the worst pilots I've flown with have been military trained.



Kevin
 
Doug Taylor said:
Well, there's the occasional "Geez, that was a SAC moment" or "It's Marine friendly" but by in large, at least out west in SLC I didn't hear any of that stuff at all.

My freshman year at Southernjets, yes, but as the civilian:military mix balanced over the years it's changed.
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I know what you mean. Things are so homogonized there that it doesn't come up as an issue often at all.

But, put a group of 50 something guys together in a classroom or a bar for long periods of time and throw in some newly hired military guys and it is a constant theme. Navy vs. Air Force vs. Marine.............please shoot me now.
 
Doug Taylor said:
That's it, folks. I've flown with mostly military pilots over the last ten years. 99.999% of the guys are fantastic to fly with and great sticks, but there are a few that could use a little remedial training, just like everyone else regardless of background.
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There was one copilot in our unit who about drove you to drink DURING the flight. Remedial training? I think this one still needed initial training.

Unfortunately, having a high-ranking dad in the Guard can get you a pilot training slot in the guard.
 
"but I'm curious about the differences between a 10,000 hour civilian-trained airline pilot and one that was shot off carriers. Is there any real disparity at that point"

If you took a 10000 hour RJ Capt and a 1500 hour F18 driver in the same new hire class, they would bring different things to the table, both have strengths and weaknesses. After a year on the line, I doubt you'd see much difference. Both would have filled in the blanks and be doing a fine job. At that point, how good you want to be is totally up to the individual.
 
DE727UPS said:
If you took a 10000 hour RJ Capt and a 1500 hour F18 driver in the same new hire class, they would bring different things to the table, both have strengths and weaknesses.
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Correct. The Navy pilot would be much better at talking with his hands, playing volleyball, and picking up women in the ladies' room....

;)
 
I can't tell the difference when it comes to flying skills. Truthfully...everyone's the same...very, very good. Occasionally, you get a guy that is rough on the controls or overcontrols.

While the aviation skills are indecipherable between the two groups, it does appear to me that the military guys are overall a sharper group in appearance, physical standards and probably intellect. Of course, their selection process is pretty tough and the guys coming out of the military academies are the cream of the crop. Military flight training is "shake and bake". You've got to be pretty sharp to get through that abbreviated and intensified program.

In my Delta new hire class, 15 of the 20 new hires were from the air force or naval academies. It's not easy to get in or out of those places.

Having said that and having conducted a bit of flight and simulator training myself, I see no appreciable skill advantage of one background over the other.
 
In my experience, I've noticed more military pilots are structured and methodical, but I haven't flown with that many different military pilots.
 
I don't think it has to do with actual flying ability, it probably has to do with training. It's more of a sure thing for mil pilots than civ pilots. I currently go to a certain airline training academy. I notice that students with a mil background are much better at picking up things quickly, learn very quickly, and have a generally better attitude than civ students. I can only imagine what actual mil pilots are like as far as their knowledge and work ethics.
 
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