Military Pilot > Part 91/135

PGT

Well-Known Member
I know it's all about who you know and I'm working on that.

My main question is, I know some flight departments like to see a type rating and time in type already, as well as 2000TT, etc flight time. Military pilots don't fly that much so would 1200-1500 hours be to low to insure or do insurance companies look at the past history?

I guess, would military flight time be looked at better than CFI/single pilot 135? (that's the place I ultimately want to end up told me they like to see)
 
I know it's all about who you know and I'm working on that.

My main question is, I know some flight departments like to see a type rating and time in type already, as well as 2000TT, etc flight time. Military pilots don't fly that much so would 1200-1500 hours be to low to insure or do insurance companies look at the past history?

I guess, would military flight time be looked at better than CFI/single pilot 135? (that's the place I ultimately want to end up told me they like to see)

With 1200-1500 hours of military aircraft experience, you can almost write your own ticket. I know some guys that didn't meet ATP minimums that were in class ahead of me at my airline.
 
I would say it is as varied as the people doing the hiring. I’ve seen military experience work for and against an applicant for similar positions in different organizations.
 
I know it's all about who you know and I'm working on that.

My main question is, I know some flight departments like to see a type rating and time in type already, as well as 2000TT, etc flight time. Military pilots don't fly that much so would 1200-1500 hours be to low to insure or do insurance companies look at the past history?

I guess, would military flight time be looked at better than CFI/single pilot 135? (that's the place I ultimately want to end up told me they like to see)

My company does not look at it as better. In reality it all doesn't make a difference only what ARGUS wants (the principal aircraft insurer).

But just wondering why do you think that?
 
My company does not look at it as better. In reality it all doesn't make a difference only what ARGUS wants (the principal aircraft insurer).

But just wondering why do you think that?

ARGUS is an information auditer, not an insurer. I don't believe they do any underwriting.
 
I know it's all about who you know and I'm working on that.

My main question is, I know some flight departments like to see a type rating and time in type already, as well as 2000TT, etc flight time. Military pilots don't fly that much so would 1200-1500 hours be to low to insure or do insurance companies look at the past history?

I guess, would military flight time be looked at better than CFI/single pilot 135? (that's the place I ultimately want to end up told me they like to see)

IIRC you have yet to start mil flight school, correct? If so, I REALLY would not worry too much about stuff like this. You will spend a minimum of 9-10 years on active duty, if not more, should you pursue and earn mil wings. So much can change between now and then, and depending on the needs of the service, you could also just as easily not get assigned to a platform that will set you up hours wise for a 135 gig after you get off AD. Just some things to think about. Do the military thing because you want to be involved in military aviation. Otherwise, it's a really long, uncertain, and roundabout way of getting into commercial flying. Just my .02
 
I was wondering about Guard guys that go in with ATP mins... come back after UPT, seasoning, maybe a deployment, etc with 400+/- more hours of mil time, maybe with a BE400 type or an L-382 type or something...

Do they have any obvious advantage, or would it be the same as another guy that had say 1500-1600hrs all civilian time?
 
I was wondering about Guard guys that go in with ATP mins... come back after UPT, seasoning, maybe a deployment, etc with 400+/- more hours of mil time, maybe with a BE400 type or an L-382 type or something...

Do they have any obvious advantage, or would it be the same as another guy that had say 1500-1600hrs all civilian time?

I think it depends what the civilian guy has for experience too. If he was just a cessna CFI, well then the military guy easily has more experience, since he is operating heavy jets etc. If the 1500 civilian guy is currently flying jets as well, then it really depends. As others have mentioned, sometimes having the military background helps getting jobs at certain companies... it always comes down to who you know. :)

A guy I fly with used to be the chief pilot for Four Star (DC-3's). And he told me a story about a KC135 guy that he met in St. Croix that wanted to see if he could be a co-pilot for their company. He told the guy he needed a minimum of 1200TT (I think). The guy said he didn't have that, but he pointed at his airplane and said, "but I have 300 hours in this!" He still couldn't offer him the job, since it was a company requirement for the total time.

I am not sure if the guy was sincerely looking for a job or just trolling around the airport, but sometimes minimums are minimums. But after 10 years in the military, you will have all the experience necessary to get most of the jobs out there. :)
 
Totally depends on the operator. Some think the military time is the seal of heaven, some (unfairly, in my opinion) avoid military guys like the plague because they're liable to write up things that don't work and spend 8 hours planning a 30 minute flight.

Whatever the case, I agree with the poster who suggested that it's not worth worrying about at this stage. If you want to fly for the military, think of it as a career, not a stepping stone.
 
Whatever the case, I agree with the poster who suggested that it's not worth worrying about at this stage. If you want to fly for the military, think of it as a career, not a stepping stone.

I hear ya... the only thing is that the Guard units get you through UPT,etc.. and the seasoning (which in some cases can last as little as 90 days). So basically 3 years after you go to AMS... you'll be back looking for civilian work as a traditional Guard guy (which is part time) if you're not being a Guard bum.

The ten year commitment in that case, pertains to after you get winged... and is for part timers.
 
I hear ya... the only thing is that the Guard units get you through UPT,etc.. and the seasoning (which in some cases can last as little as 90 days). So basically 3 years after you go to AMS... you'll be back looking for civilian work as a traditional Guard guy (which is part time) if you're not being a Guard bum.

The ten year commitment in that case, pertains to after you get winged... and is for part timers.

Yep, and my post I guess was mostly directed at AD applicants. I have no idea how the ANG guys live so I'd imagine that could be a whole different story.
 
Yep, and my post I guess was mostly directed at AD applicants. I have no idea how the ANG guys live so I'd imagine that could be a whole different story.

AD would be awesome... the Guard would be great too... If the Navy says yes, it'll be a Guard vs. AD Navy thing - both would be a real privilege... Gotta be prepared if one doesn't work out I guess.... would like to try to have a few options open

I'm sure you're having fun at the RAG... that's pretty freakin cool.. beats any civilian job
 
Guys in the training commands also seem to have an unusual ability to go on the road every weekend and bag the most hours.
 
Yeah, I think it depends what you are flying. I talked to a couple of KC135 guys, they are getting lots of hours!

Guys in the training commands also seem to have an unusual ability to go on the road every weekend and bag the most hours.

Times must have changed. My dad (USAF retired) had over 30k hrs after 23 years in service. It seemed like he was constantly on TDY.

I just came back from a T-37 and T-6 assignment, and I'm in the KC-135 now. As for hours per year go, it's kind of a question of how you define "lots." It may be a "lot" compared to other airframes in the military, and it is DEFINITELY a lot compared to guys who are paying out of pocket to fly GA (unless they are just filthy stinkin' rich and flying their butts off!) It's probably more than a CFI flies, but that is just a guess. Compared to most of the regionals or the majors, it's probably a lot less.

In my career, 300-400 hours per year has been about average. In the training commands you can go cross country just about every weekend if you want to. Generally, the guys who do are young and single... but even then you do get burned out on that pretty quickly, and guys wind up settling into a pattern where they go out maybe one weekend a month (if they like going a lot) or about 1 weekend every 2-3 months if they don't. Some guys have girlfriends in other towns and so they are gone as often as they can... to get some "recurrency training." Others have a girlfriend or wife at home, and they just don't want to leave that often. So while it seems like all the new guys to the T-37/T-6 world begin with a 600-700 hr/year rate for about the first 3 months, it's hard to keep that up and there really is not a reason too. It'll drive you crazy! They generally settle down to that same 300-400 number... probably closer to the 400 end.

As for the -135, again, that depends. If you deploy to the desert a lot you may see as much as 600-700 hours/year... but again it seems like most guys settle in at around the 300-400 hour/ year range. There are always other things that come up and get in the way: staff jobs, a deployment as a planner, a professional conference, you get picked to be on a safety investigation, you get picked to be the life-support officer and have to go to a school for a couple of months, you become a Chief of Training and there is an inspection coming up, you get a longer term injury playing sports, you get picked to be the executive officer and the squadron commander won't let you go on any trip longer than a week any more or he'll only let you fly Tuesdays and Thursdays, you become the representative for this year's airshow, etc., etc. There are a thousand things out there that get in the way of just flying every day. They are all important, both to the military and to your career as a professional military officer. But they do limit the flying.

Now, that is officer specific, and Air Force specific. My general sense is that for the Navy and Marines the story is similar, from talking to those guys, but you'd have to ask them for better data. I've heard that for the Army it is even worse for the officers, who almost never fly, because the lion's share of the flying is done by the warrant officers. So for an Army officer, my guess is that 300 hrs/year would be a HUGE year for them. IanJ would probably know better.

Now, I've heard that my airline buddies fly something like 70 hours a month, or 75 hours a month, and if you figure that that works out to about 800-900 hours a year even the "burnout rate" of 600-700 hours that no one seems to be able to achieve long term in the Air Force is significantly less than that. Of course, I've heard some "alibi's" on their numbers also: some months you just sit reserve and don't get called that much, that number is a maximum, it's not really a guarantee, you may get furloughed and not fly for a while, etc., etc. Maybe some airline guys can talk about their work schedule a little more to put it in perspective.

To sum it up: a "lot" is really a question of perspective. A "lot" compared to who?
 
I just came back from a T-37 and T-6 assignment, and I'm in the KC-135 now. As for hours per year go, it's kind of a question of how you define "lots." It may be a "lot" compared to other airframes in the military, and it is DEFINITELY a lot compared to guys who are paying out of pocket to fly GA (unless they are just filthy stinkin' rich and flying their butts off!) It's probably more than a CFI flies, but that is just a guess. Compared to most of the regionals or the majors, it's probably a lot less.

In my career, 300-400 hours per year has been about average. In the training commands you can go cross country just about every weekend if you want to. Generally, the guys who do are young and single... but even then you do get burned out on that pretty quickly, and guys wind up settling into a pattern where they go out maybe one weekend a month (if they like going a lot) or about 1 weekend every 2-3 months if they don't. Some guys have girlfriends in other towns and so they are gone as often as they can... to get some "recurrency training." Others have a girlfriend or wife at home, and they just don't want to leave that often. So while it seems like all the new guys to the T-37/T-6 world begin with a 600-700 hr/year rate for about the first 3 months, it's hard to keep that up and there really is not a reason too. It'll drive you crazy! They generally settle down to that same 300-400 number... probably closer to the 400 end.

As for the -135, again, that depends. If you deploy to the desert a lot you may see as much as 600-700 hours/year... but again it seems like most guys settle in at around the 300-400 hour/ year range. There are always other things that come up and get in the way: staff jobs, a deployment as a planner, a professional conference, you get picked to be on a safety investigation, you get picked to be the life-support officer and have to go to a school for a couple of months, you become a Chief of Training and there is an inspection coming up, you get a longer term injury playing sports, you get picked to be the executive officer and the squadron commander won't let you go on any trip longer than a week any more or he'll only let you fly Tuesdays and Thursdays, you become the representative for this year's airshow, etc., etc. There are a thousand things out there that get in the way of just flying every day. They are all important, both to the military and to your career as a professional military officer. But they do limit the flying.

Now, that is officer specific, and Air Force specific. My general sense is that for the Navy and Marines the story is similar, from talking to those guys, but you'd have to ask them for better data. I've heard that for the Army it is even worse for the officers, who almost never fly, because the lion's share of the flying is done by the warrant officers. So for an Army officer, my guess is that 300 hrs/year would be a HUGE year for them. IanJ would probably know better.

Now, I've heard that my airline buddies fly something like 70 hours a month, or 75 hours a month, and if you figure that that works out to about 800-900 hours a year even the "burnout rate" of 600-700 hours that no one seems to be able to achieve long term in the Air Force is significantly less than that. Of course, I've heard some "alibi's" on their numbers also: some months you just sit reserve and don't get called that much, that number is a maximum, it's not really a guarantee, you may get furloughed and not fly for a while, etc., etc. Maybe some airline guys can talk about their work schedule a little more to put it in perspective.

To sum it up: a "lot" is really a question of perspective. A "lot" compared to who?

We're doing about 900-1000hrs per year. In the summer that's as much as 120-130hrs per month, and in the winter that falls off to around 40-60 depending on both weather and business. So far, in my experience, I think that the most comfortable rate of flying airplanes is about 60hrs per month, give or take.
 
If you deploy to the desert a lot you may see as much as 600-700 hours/year... but again it seems like most guys settle in at around the 300-400 hour/ year range. There are always other things that come up and get in the way: staff jobs, a deployment as a planner, a professional conference, you get picked to be on a safety investigation, you get picked to be the life-support officer and have to go to a school for a couple of months, you become a Chief of Training and there is an inspection coming up, you get a longer term injury playing sports, you get picked to be the executive officer and the squadron commander won't let you go on any trip longer than a week any more or he'll only let you fly Tuesdays and Thursdays, you become the representative for this year's airshow, etc., etc. There are a thousand things out there that get in the way of just flying every day. They are all important, both to the military and to your career as a professional military officer. But they do limit the flying.

Queep garbage like this. Reason 694 I left the USAF AD. Got tired of working 12-15 or so hours a day depending. Realized that I work to live, not live to work. As Blackhawk said, the military doesn't understand that time is money, therefore they don't value your time or value wasting said time. And the AF has always been about working harder, not smarter......."do more with less".

[/rant]
 
Queep garbage like this. Reason 694 I left the USAF AD. Got tired of working 12-15 or so hours a day depending. Realized that I work to live, not live to work. As Blackhawk said, the military doesn't understand that time is money, therefore they don't value your time or value wasting said time. And the AF has always been about working harder, not smarter......."do more with less".

[/rant]

I feel ya brother!

Most of this stuff has to be done, though. Seems like for some (but definitely not all) of this stuff, the airlines would have to do it also. Things like tracking the training of the pilots, making sure everyone gets their check rides on time, scheduling crews, etc., etc. I guess they just hire guys specifically for those roles. That is probably a lot more efficient in the long run, since you don't have to train those guys for 2 different jobs (pilot AND crew scheduler). You also don't get have to worry about guys splitting time between the two functions, so both functions are always manned. There are no "why the crap is there no one in the scheduling shop today?" moments.

I think a part of the problem (but definitely not ALL) is that the size of the service is mandated. If I can take 1 person's job and split it among the spare time of 3 or 4 pilots, then that is 1 less person I have to hire.
 
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