Midwest Airlines to ground 717s in November
- Thread starter sopdan
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surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Sad.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
What can you really say that has not already been said.... Nothing anyone can do right now really. Just hope the RAH union can get a proper pay rate for that new plane when the time comes.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Well, I look at it this way. This is an industry where very slight margins can mean the success or failure of an airline.
I don't expect 100% of Midwest's passengers to realize what has just occurred, but hopefully enough do (10%) to make a dent in the company's success. Whereas the Midwesterns previously could look at an airline that organically grew to serve them, what is left is "Acme Airlines" in a Midwest costume. It's not the same, and if anyone had the inclination to throw business their way (again small %)for being the local airline, I hope they would reconsider.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
I'm interested in the economics of the situation -- how do they expect to make money? The E-190 as a higher CASM than the B 717.
I don't know for sure but something tells me, even with shifting of Frontier Airbus (will they paint them in Midwest colors?!) to cover some of the heavier Midwest routes, that BB may be about to learn the difference of running an airline where your codeshare partner pays all of your expenses to running a real airline.
I don't know for sure but something tells me, even with shifting of Frontier Airbus (will they paint them in Midwest colors?!) to cover some of the heavier Midwest routes, that BB may be about to learn the difference of running an airline where your codeshare partner pays all of your expenses to running a real airline.
Having worked at MEH, you are absolutely correct.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091001/BUSINESS/91001003/Frontier+set+to+emerge+as+Indy+airline
Frontier set to emerge from bankruptcy as Indy airline
Star and wire reports
Posted: October 1, 2009Read Comments(5)RecommendE-mail Print ShareA A Frontier Airlines is set to exit bankruptcy protection today as part of Republic Airways, which seems determined to run an efficient airline even if it ruffles some feathers in the process.
By buying Frontier, Indianapolis-based Republic is transforming itself from a regional jet hauler of travelers for other airlines into a carrier that competes for its own passengers.
AIRLINE LAYOFFS: Union official says 150 Midwest jobs at risk.
Earlier this year Republic bought Milwaukee-based Midwest Airlines, too.
Republic may move Frontier's maintenance operation out of Denver. It's grounding the last of the Boeing 717s flown by newly acquired Midwest Airlines. And it's gambling that the payoff from hauling its own customers will make up for whatever goodwill it might burn with the big-airline partners that hire it to fly passengers for them.
"It's just going to be a pleasure not having 'bankruptcy' associated with our name," said Sean Menke, chief executive of the Denver- based airline, in an interview with the Denver Post.
Frontier, the second-largest airline at Denver International Airport, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection April 10, 2008.
Indianapolis-based Republic outbid larger rival Southwest in an August bankruptcy auction, offering to pay $108.75 million as the winning bidder for all of the assets of Frontier and its subsidiary, Lynx Aviation. The deal closes today.
-- Compiled by Star business reporter Tom Spalding.
Frontier set to emerge from bankruptcy as Indy airline
Star and wire reports
Posted: October 1, 2009Read Comments(5)RecommendE-mail Print ShareA A Frontier Airlines is set to exit bankruptcy protection today as part of Republic Airways, which seems determined to run an efficient airline even if it ruffles some feathers in the process.
By buying Frontier, Indianapolis-based Republic is transforming itself from a regional jet hauler of travelers for other airlines into a carrier that competes for its own passengers.
AIRLINE LAYOFFS: Union official says 150 Midwest jobs at risk.
Earlier this year Republic bought Milwaukee-based Midwest Airlines, too.
Republic may move Frontier's maintenance operation out of Denver. It's grounding the last of the Boeing 717s flown by newly acquired Midwest Airlines. And it's gambling that the payoff from hauling its own customers will make up for whatever goodwill it might burn with the big-airline partners that hire it to fly passengers for them.
"It's just going to be a pleasure not having 'bankruptcy' associated with our name," said Sean Menke, chief executive of the Denver- based airline, in an interview with the Denver Post.
Frontier, the second-largest airline at Denver International Airport, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection April 10, 2008.
Indianapolis-based Republic outbid larger rival Southwest in an August bankruptcy auction, offering to pay $108.75 million as the winning bidder for all of the assets of Frontier and its subsidiary, Lynx Aviation. The deal closes today.
-- Compiled by Star business reporter Tom Spalding.
Hootie
Old Skool
Pay everybody less than half of what the previous workers were making.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Can't save enough that way -- crew pay is a minor cost on mainline / LCC airlines.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Sorry to pee on the populist parade, but check out this article from January. I even highlighted the important part.
Now this was before RAH grabbed the scraps. Make no mistake about it, MidEx was on it's way to shutdown city. Parking the remaining 9 717s was inevitable, whether it was RAH or another investor, or the company was just liquidated.
There needs to be an integration, and it sucks that more people are out of work, but to make it seem like RAH is solely at fault is crap.
The previous CEO who desired to pee all over the employees of the company did this.
If you can point out an article that shows the MidEx was poised to replace the 717 fleet, and that order was subsequently cancelled due to RAH, then I apologize. Otherwise, please try to look at the history of it, not some snapshot today that is devoid of the issues that lead up to this.
This is supposed to be the "grown folks" website. Let's not descend into the half-assed fact checking poo-slinging that propogates other websites.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/01/26/321648/mexicana-poised-to-lease-25-717s.html
Now this was before RAH grabbed the scraps. Make no mistake about it, MidEx was on it's way to shutdown city. Parking the remaining 9 717s was inevitable, whether it was RAH or another investor, or the company was just liquidated.
There needs to be an integration, and it sucks that more people are out of work, but to make it seem like RAH is solely at fault is crap.
The previous CEO who desired to pee all over the employees of the company did this.
If you can point out an article that shows the MidEx was poised to replace the 717 fleet, and that order was subsequently cancelled due to RAH, then I apologize. Otherwise, please try to look at the history of it, not some snapshot today that is devoid of the issues that lead up to this.
This is supposed to be the "grown folks" website. Let's not descend into the half-assed fact checking poo-slinging that propogates other websites.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/01/26/321648/mexicana-poised-to-lease-25-717s.html
DATE:26/01/09
SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news
Mexicana poised to lease 25 717s
By Brendan Sobie
Mexicana is negotiating leases for about 25 Boeing 717s that will be used to replace the 25 Fokker 100s now operated by its low-cost unit Click.
A Mexicana spokesman confirms the carrier has "been in negotiations with Boeing on the 717" and aims to start replacing Fokker 100s later this year.
He says if the contract with Boeing is finalised, all 25 of Click's Fokker 100s will be replaced with 717s over the next two to three years. But he adds Mexicana will only commit to five or six-year leases because it views the 717 as a "transitional aircraft".
Early last year Mexicana studied possible replacements for Click's Fokker 100s (pictured), including the Bombardier CRJ900 and Embraer E-195. But Mexicana CEO Manuel Borja told Flightglobal sister publication ATI in November its evaluation of new 100-seat aircraft had been put on hold for at least six months due to poor economic conditions.
© Click
The spokesman says that since November "some of the suppliers came back with better offers," prompting Mexicana to accelerate replacing Click's Fokker 100s. He says Mexicana continues to evaluate the CRJ900 and E-195 and "we haven't signed anything". But he adds "the 717 is the ideal aircraft for the mission we are flying".
Borja told ATI in November only 100-seat aircraft were being considered because Click's routes are too thin for Airbus or Boeing narrowbodies and Mexicana's unions would likely oppose larger aircraft at lower-cost Click. The spokesman says Mexicana prefers the 717 over the CRJ900 and E-195 because the 717 has a wider fuselage, allowing Click to preserve its current five-seat abreast configuration.
The 717s, the spokesman says, "are relatively new airplanes and help us maintain the product we have". He adds Boeing Capital has offered aircraft that were manufactured in 2003 and 2006.
Most if not all of the aircraft being offered by Boeing Capital are likely to be the ex Midwest Airlines 717s. Midwest took delivery of 25 717s from 2003 to 2006, including the last aircraft to roll off the 717 production line. But last September Midwest, as part of a massive fleet and network restructuring, concluded a deal with Boeing Capital covering the return of 16 717s.
A Boeing Capital spokesman says all 16 of these aircraft have now been returned and are sitting at a Boeing facility in the desert. But he declined to comment on a potential deal with Mexicana.
"We're talking to a large number of customers. We're not talking about the particulars," he says. "They [the 16 airplanes] are in the remarketing process."
While Midwest was the second largest 717 operator after AirTran, which has 86 of the type, there are several airliners with small fleets. This includes carriers in Australia, Spain and Thailand which have been looking to offload 717s.
The Mexicana spokesman says the 717 and Fokker 100 burn about the same amount of fuel and cost about the same to operate but the carrier believes the 717 will be easier to support.
"With the Fokker 100 we don't have problems now but we believe in future we'll have problems getting parts," the spokesman says. He adds while the 717 is no longer in production Mexicana is confident Boeing will continue to support the aircraft with an adequate pool of parts.
Click launched in 2005, initially operating 10 Fokker 100s which were formerly with Mexicana mainline. As Mexicana has handed Click more domestic routes in response to increased competition from local low-cost carriers, Click took on leases for 16 additional Fokker 100s.
The last six of Click's Fokker 100s were only delivered last year but the spokesman says these are on short-term leases. He says the first batch of Fokker 100 leases expire this year and the plan would be to begin taking 717s as these leases expire.
Click's strategy is to operate a single aircraft type on thinner routes. Mexicana, which operates Airbus A318s and A319s in two-class configuration, plans to maintain its presence on denser domestic routes such as Mexico City to Guadalajara, Monterrey, Cancun and Tijauana.
The spokesman says a decision has not yet been made on how to configure the 717s or on exactly how many 717s will be acquired. But he says Click, which now only offers economy class on its Fokker 100s, could opt to keep the two-class configuration currently on the Midwest 717s,
He adds "we're thinking of a number like 25" and in a few years "we will take a look at what product is available" before selecting a long-term solution for Click's fleet.
Rah is actually losing money on every Midwest airplane they are returning, just under a million for each, even tough they're more efficient than the 190. That tells you something. BB's been wanting E190s ever since they got the E170. Now they have the 100+ seaters on the certificate, with a code share or two, they can take over struggling majors and circumvent major airline scope.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
How about the start of a YX E170/190 training program that was shutdown? They were planning to lease/buy the only 170s around -- RAH's from Frontier that were parked.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
The big question, is WHY was it shut down. Is this anything different from what has been happening over there? Plans have been going boom for years over there. Now that RAH marches in and transplants the heart, everybody wants to blame the surgeon. Blame the patient for their lifestyle.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
No offense to Polar and everyone else, but I'd rather have seen Midwest fail and the gap filled by AirTran or SWA. I'm still curious to see how it all plays out, but it wouldn't surprise me to see a set up where you have to fly the E175 for regional wages before working "up" to the Airbus or the 190. Not exactly my idea of a career advancement.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
Then EVERYONE loses their job over there. Tell that to them.