MH 17

ghostjet

ghostjet

Well-Known Member
The dispatcher is obviously already part of the conversation here. I'm curious, can any blame actually be directed toward them if he/she followed all applicable regulations and restrictions and considered any and all existing advisories and notices? I mean it appears the flight plan was completely legal and legitimate. Can there still be an argument made about the dispatcher's (apparent) lack of judgment regarding the very slim margin of safety (1000ft) they afforded this aircraft.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-aviation-20140717-story.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ht-tragedy-raises-questions-article-1.1871372
 
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No way you could hang the dispatcher for this. He filed a flight on a route that was deemed safe for travel by the ICAO and was above the restricted airspace. It's unreasonable to expect the dispatcher to have independent intelligence that would suggest his flight might be in any sort of danger.
 
This should be a referendum on dispatcher workload. This was a legal flight plan but maybe not a smart flight plan. There were NOTAM's out there that recommended avoiding the region.

Where I think this should draw attention is that dispatchers worldwide have too many variables to work with on too many flights.

There are so many instances at every airline where dispatchers who are busy make decisions that can put a flight at serious risk. Yeah, the airport that is reporting breaking action poor is legal but it isnt always smart to try to attempt it.

With a high workload, dispatchers often become point and click desk clerks. We need to lower the workload and take back the dispatcher authority and status.
 
I would hang this on the airline before the dispatcher. Some airlines are avoiding or highly restricting flight through all Ukrainian airspace not just the Simferopol FIR that ICAO advised against.

The dispatcher couldn't have known what would happen, but I can see some critics trying to hang him for choosing to route the plane where he did.
 
From an operations standpoint, the author is speaking out of his patootie.

An international flight is dispatcher over all sorts of airspace, regularly. Ukraine and the Crimean Peninsula is a relatively low risk area when you compare it to a European to Asian flight. Regularly, we'd fly over Iran, Iraq, the Persian Gulf, Kuwait, Pakistan, etc on our way into Asia.

We obtain overflight authorizations from the controlling authority and people get paid.

The people that truly know what they're talking about aren't speaking, the ones full of the "my worldview from sitting right here in the doublewide trailer in Stockton" are having a field day.
 
How can you blame a Dispatcher or the Pilots for not being intimately aware of a regional conflict in a very small area along their route of flight?

We rely on information provided to us by regulatory and company officials, to expect a dispatcher in Malaysia to know the recent history of an uprising in Ukraine is absurd, to expect them to plan based on it is lunacy. They all read the NOTAMs, complied with them, complied with company guidance, government guidance, complied with ATC, and yet still this happened. this was a fluke, a horrific one at that and one which will haunt the Dispatcher and anyone else involved in this flight forever.

In addition, no one seems to be raising red flags about the fact that the aircraft was also filed over Afghanistan later in the flight, as were just about every other Europe - SE Asia flights today and for the past several years. Airlines fly over war zones every day and we rely on goverments and the airlines to provide us with the right info to keep our flights and our passengers safe. It didn't happen that way yesterday.

As Dispatchers, as Pilots, as ATC, etc. we can only do our best with what we are given. This is a tragedy and no one could have foreseen it. Period. The talking heads on CNN blaming the victims before the flames had been extinguished should be ashamed of themselves. I was very happy to see the ALPA VP quoted as defending the dispatcher in a few articles this morning, the support among workgroups is greatly appreciated.
 
belgiumania said:
How can you blame a Dispatcher or the Pilots for not being intimately aware of a regional conflict in a very small area along their route of flight?
Click to expand...
One could argue that there are regional conflicts in thousands of small areas around the world. Are Dispatchers supposed to be experts in sociopolitical skirmishes around the world now?
 
A lot of good points here. A terrible, fluke tragedy that somehow still feels like it could happen again easily. I mean if all protocols were followed properly, there's no reason to assume that another unsuspecting flight over a conflict zone will meet the same fate. Extraordinarily heartbreaking for everyone involved. Could increasing the size of restricted airspace over these hot zones help? Would that even be possible? And don't even get me started on the heartless, uninformed, media speculation; I was in the news business for ten years and got out (escaped) just before losing my very last shred of hope for humanity.
 
As a previous intl dispatcher for a Part 121 airline, we routinely flew flights over hot spots and war zones including over and into Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Middle East. In Europe, all routes, when filed, are approved or disapproved by Eurocontrol. There are FIR Notams issued within each FIR indicating all sorts of things such as airway closures during certain times, artillery fire (for example in Turkey), and other advisories that dispatchers and pilots see and read that pertain to that particular FIR that you plan to fly through. When overflight permits are issued for some countries, those countries also state a particular route that must be flown and filed and we adhered to it. Even with weather forecasted through the area, we filed the route, advised the crew of the weather situation and direction of movement of the weather, and allowed them to coordinate with ATC for a suitable reroute other than the one that we had to file to overfly the country. This was an open public area of airspace determined by Ukraine to be safe. The rebels are not a governing authority and had no right to even suggest or question whether or not an airplane should be operating overhead. I have heard that there was speculation that Ukraine knew that the rebels had the ability to launch SAM's and maybe they should have limited airspace to all altitudes when known, but as long as the route is legal and open, an airliner is legal and presumed safe to fly through it. The airliner would not have been safer at FL370 with a SAM chasing after it. With what we know, I personally do not feel that it is fair to place any blame on the flight planner or pilot or airline, at least until more is known.
 
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Two other aircraft have been shot down over that region this past week! The two aircraft were an Ukrainian cargo aircraft and a fighter jet. This should have been more than enough to prohibit flights over that region. In my opinion, some of the blame should definitely be placed on eurocontrol (or the Ukrainian aviation authority?) for not realizing the dangers sooner.
 
We heave regularly filed flights over Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Iran, Chechnya and until just recently, Ukraine. Filing over these areas is pretty routine, though do require a little additional care. The public just never knew or cared to pay attention about it.

Also, does MH even have dispatchers? (I didnt read the article). A lot of foreign carriers do not have dispatchers, but some variation of a "flight follower"... and I say that loosely.
 
I recently saw a posting from Jeppesen who seems to be providing training for dispatchers for Malaysia Airlines and obtaining the Malaysia Dispatch Certificate but who knows if they are full on dispatchers or flight planners. It appears to be ongoing from this link here..Maybe some of us recently furloughed as intl dispatchers could apply at Malaysia Airlines. Hmmm theres a thought. Do I really want to live in Malaysia though?? I think they may be desperate..http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/us/...aysia-airlines-academy/jeppesen-training.html
 
Several airliners were on that route that day and any of them could have fallen victim to this crime. The blame lies squarely on the person or people that targeted and fired on this aircraft. They aren't getting off so easily by trying to blame the victims.

As stated above, there are no licensed dispatchers in many parts of the world. My company has a dispatcher for every flight that does the flight planning etc, but there is no licensing requirement for them. The operation of the flight is the full responsibility of the flight crew and PIC.
 
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