Mesa..please go away!

C

Captain A

New Member
Mesa, just another bottom feeder airline with Jonathan O. as their CEO. (One of Frank Lorenzo's boys!!!) They will outbid any airline because they will work for peanuts. They hire 260 hour pilots to fly a jet, which I go on to say that nobody with 260 hours has any business flying a jet. Freedom Air the scab started airline is doing this. They are constantly proving how bad an airline can be by the number of cancellations that occur and by violating their already pathetic contract. They will paint their airplanes in any color to fit the need of the day. The are the top winner to the race to the bottom along with Chitaqua and the other Republic owned airlines. Please go away Mesa or grow a pair!
 
Just for the record, its CHAUTAUQUA.

Exactly what is your problem with Republic anyways? Just curious.
 
SIUAv8r said:
Just for the record, its CHAUTAUQUA.

Exactly what is your problem with Republic anyways? Just curious.
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Gee, I don't know maybe because their 70 seat rates and the fact that they, and Mesa, seem to ubderbid everyone with a decent contract in the industry. $2-$3 more per hour to fly a 70 seater than a 50 seater in the left seat and even pay in the right seat. No thanks.
 
Captain A just lost my vote :(


Excuse me - Race to the BOTTOM? How about Gulfstream? Colgan? Great Lakes? Any of the so called freight carriers?

Mesa is pretty far above the bottom.

Captain A - you grow a pair! Post your name.

John Tenney
Ex-Mesa CRJ Captain
 
Cav said:
Gee, I don't know maybe because their 70 seat rates and the fact that they, and Mesa, seem to ubderbid everyone with a decent contract in the industry. $2-$3 more per hour to fly a 70 seater than a 50 seater in the left seat and even pay in the right seat. No thanks.
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You make a good point. Again, i was just curious. Not trying to start any mudslinging or anything.
 
Just thought I'd put my own uneducated opinion here... but I"m not sure if you should lump Great Lakes, Colgan and Gulfstream all in the same lump with Mesa and Republic - first of all Gulfstream is in its own dark corner of PFT and is the worst in my book because of that, secondly I don't hear of Great Lakes trying to take every other regionals flying contracts away by underbidding them - they fly 19 and 30 passender airplanes on essential air service routes that very few other carriers are clamoring over to obtain (if any) I"m know their pay is terrible but you need to look at the amount of revenue that a 19 passenger plane is going to generate when many times is half full or less. Pilots go there as a stepping stone - get their 3 years and 1500 hours of turbine PIC and move on to larger carriers (ie SWA, CAL, Fedex etc). Don't know much about colgan but they fly Saabs and Beech 1900s - NOT 50-90 passenger JETS. I can slightly understand the low pay etc at lakes and colgan much more than Mesa, Republic etc. Mesa and others are chomping at the bit to fly bigger and bigger airplanes for less and less which I DEFFINITLY think is wrong. Lakes - not so much. Totally different market niche. so keep it apples to apples. (for the most part) That being said - regional pay sucks everywhere starting out and everyone should start out with more than that.

Edit: Disclaimer - I'm not going to rain down on someone who goes to Lakes for a quick upgrade and an opportunity with low hours or someone who starts their career at mesa, If you PFJ or PFT I will try to set the record straight. If you DO go to a low ball regional I hope you fight the good fight to raise QOL and pay however. Mesa would be better off without JO! That Being said I don't see myself ever going to Mesa.
 
Captain A said:
Freedom Air the scab started airline is doing this.
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You sure about that?

FYI, a good friend of mine, an ex-lawyer who worked on the eastern airline bankruptcy (that shows his age!) is at Freedom now (as a pilot). Are you calling him a scab?

~wheelsup
 
Mr_Creepy said:
Captain A just lost my vote :(


Excuse me - Race to the BOTTOM? How about Gulfstream? Colgan? Great Lakes? Any of the so called freight carriers?

Mesa is pretty far above the bottom.

Captain A - you grow a pair! Post your name.

John Tenney
Ex-Mesa CRJ Captain
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Before you start spouting the virtues of working for Mesa versus Colgan and and Great Lakes lets compare apples to apples...in other words Beech 1900 rates. Let's not let the facts get in the way of your typical Mesa defense rhetoric.

From www.airlinepilotcentral.com

MESA CA/ GIA CA/ Colgan CA/ Great Lakes CA
1...$29 $31 $32 $26
2...$31 $32 $34 $27
3...$32 $34 $35 $28
4...$34 $35 $37 $30
5...$36 $36 $38 $31
6...$37 $38 $40 $32
7...$38 $41 $41 $33

Respective FO rates
1...$19 $17 $20 $15
2...$21 $19 $22 $17
3...$22 $20 $24 $18
4...$24 $21 $25 $20
5...$25 $22 $26 $20
6...$25 $22 $27 $20
7...$25 $22 $28 $20

From what I can see the only advantage Mesa has is over all Great Lakes pilots and Gulfstream FO's. So how far from the bottom are they John Tenney? Not very. I'm in no way condoning any of these rates but really John, Mesa looks sooooooo much better. Keep drinking the Kool-aid dude. Mesa is an almost on the bottom, bottom feeder which is hurting all of us.
 
Cav said:
Gee, I don't know maybe because their 70 seat rates and the fact that they, and Mesa, seem to ubderbid everyone with a decent contract in the industry. $2-$3 more per hour to fly a 70 seater than a 50 seater in the left seat and even pay in the right seat. No thanks.
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As much as people want to deny it, the Republic and Mesa management have made great moves. Republic with the 170's, buying slots at DCA etc. Their contract really isn't THAT bad. As for Mesa, yes payrates suck etc, their MEC has just been overthrown and I believe they are going to turn the place around.

All regionals suck. You go to a regional to get experience to move on to the bigger and better. Remember that and it'll be ok.
 
Oh yeah I almost forgot. Lets look at Airnet yearly pay....

I derived this by taking monthly rate x 12 months
For the prop which is either the Baron or the Caravan I believe
1...$22,668
2...$24,732
5...$29,352

Mesa derived by FO hourly rate x 76 min guarantee x 12 mos.
1...$17,328
2...$19,152
5...$22,800

by CA rates...
1...$26,448
2...$28,272
3...$29,184
4...$31,008

So, let's look at the facts. A 1900 pilot at Mesa has to upgrade to Captain to equal the pay of a Airnet prop pilot. So those "so called" freight carriers as you call them are making more initially during the first few years, flying smaller equipment with what are probably far better work rules. From what I read the Airnet guys are treated very well. Hey it's single pilot yeah, but so is being a Mesa Captain. How much do you think that 250 hr. MAPD/PACE guy is really bringing to the flight deck? But I guess the upgrade is fast so that makes it OK albeit at everyone elses expense.
 
wheelsup said:
As much as people want to deny it, the Republic and Mesa management have made great moves. Republic with the 170's, buying slots at DCA etc. Their contract really isn't THAT bad. As for Mesa, yes payrates suck etc, their MEC has just been overthrown and I believe they are going to turn the place around.

All regionals suck. You go to a regional to get experience to move on to the bigger and better. Remember that and it'll be ok.
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I agree. I mean no ill will towards CHQ/REP pilots and I sincerely hope that Mesa gets a good contract this time around. My only problem with CHQ is with their 70 and 90 seat rates. I believe they will turn it around on the next contract since if memory serves they negotiated these rates before any 70/90 seaters were offered to them.

With all due respect, your comment regarding the regionals as a stepping stone and therefore a reason to just sit back and take it bothers me a bit. This day in time, pilots are being forced to stay at regionals longer and longer so just taking isn't exactly helping the situation. If we don't try to raise the bar the problem will be perpetuated. The cheaper regional pilots are, the easier it is for legacy carriers to continue outsourcing flying and thus ruining this career long term. I'm not going to pretend that regionals don't suck or that even my regional (XJT) is above the race to the bottom. But at least we are doing everything in our power to reverse the trend. We earn a decent wage, have good work rules, and deliver a good product. However, the attitude that some, NOT ALL, Mesa and CHQ pilots have that because upgrades are fast that that makes substandard contracts acceptable is exactly the opposite. UNACCEPTABLE! There's a lot more to it than upgrading, getting 1000 PIC Turbine and faxing a few resumes around. I doubt people at some of these airlines move on as fast as you think.
 
wheelsup said:
You sure about that?

FYI, a good friend of mine, an ex-lawyer who worked on the eastern airline bankruptcy (that shows his age!) is at Freedom now (as a pilot). Are you calling him a scab?

~wheelsup
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Apparently Captain A doesn't understand the difference between Freedumb 1 and Freedom 2.
 
Cav said:
Before you start spouting the virtues of working for Mesa versus Colgan and and Great Lakes lets compare apples to apples...in other words Beech 1900 rates. Let's not let the facts get in the way of your typical Mesa defense rhetoric.

From www.airlinepilotcentral.com

MESA CA/ GIA CA/ Colgan CA/ Great Lakes CA
1...$29 $31 $32 $26
2...$31 $32 $34 $27
3...$32 $34 $35 $28
4...$34 $35 $37 $30
5...$36 $36 $38 $31
6...$37 $38 $40 $32
7...$38 $41 $41 $33

Respective FO rates
1...$19 $17 $20 $15
2...$21 $19 $22 $17
3...$22 $20 $24 $18
4...$24 $21 $25 $20
5...$25 $22 $26 $20
6...$25 $22 $27 $20
7...$25 $22 $28 $20

From what I can see the only advantage Mesa has is over all Great Lakes pilots and Gulfstream FO's. So how far from the bottom are they John Tenney? Not very. I'm in no way condoning any of these rates but really John, Mesa looks sooooooo much better. Keep drinking the Kool-aid dude. Mesa is an almost on the bottom, bottom feeder which is hurting all of us.
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First of all you need to understand how Mesa pays. They pay in 28 day blocks so you get 26 paycheks a year, not 24! Those rates do not coincide with what I have!

Also, show me a 7 yr Mesa pilot who is not a jet captain!

Colgan has NO union and NO seniority - it is all buddy buddy system. If you like that, fine.

Mesa is NOT the bottom!
 
Mr_Creepy said:
First of all you need to understand how Mesa pays. They pay in 28 day blocks so you get 26 paycheks a year, not 24! Those rates do not coincide with what I have!

Also, show me a 7 yr Mesa pilot who is not a jet captain!

Colgan has NO union and NO seniority - it is all buddy buddy system. If you like that, fine.

Mesa is NOT the bottom!
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And as for drinking Kool-aid - ha ha ha.

I am not in aviation anymore! The LAND of Kool-aid!

Anytime you want to compare lifestyles let me know :D
 
Mr_Creepy said:
And as for drinking Kool-aid - ha ha ha.

I am not in aviation anymore! The LAND of Kool-aid!

Anytime you want to compare lifestyles let me know :D
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No argument here. For what it's worth since you asked my wife and I live very well with a household income very close to 6 digits....not bad for being in our mid 20's.
 
By the Numbers...

First of all you need to understand how Mesa pays. They pay in 28 day blocks so you get 26 paycheks a year, not 24! Those rates do not coincide with what I have!
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Thanks John, so very few people are aware that mesa runs on a 13 bid / year system!

Cav, here's how 1900 pay stacks up annually:

Beech 1900 FO

_Mesa_GIA_ Colgan_ Great lakes

1 18772 15300 18000 13500
2 20748 17100 19800 15300
3 21763 18000 21600 16200
4 23712 18900 22500 18000


Beech 1900 Capt

_Mesa_ GIA_ Colgan_ Great lakes

1 28652 27900 28800 23400
2 30628 28800 30600 24300
3 31616 30600 31500 25200
4 33592 31500 33300 27000
5 35568 32400 34200 27900
6 36556 34200 36000 28800

Looks like Mesa is one of the highest paying B1900 operators out there. Amazing.

Mesa is NOT the bottom!
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I've got time so I'll prove it:

CRJ200 / EMB145 FO

Mesa AEagle Pinn Chaut Mesaba SkyW ExpJet

1 20748 20736 18900 19800 21600 17000 19800
2 27664 27648 21600 27000 25200 31500 29700
3 30628 29376 27000 30600 27900 32400 31500
4 32604 31104 29700 31500 30600 33300 33300


CRJ200 / EMB145 Capt

Mesa AEagle Pinn Chaut Mesaba SkyW ExpJet

1 51376 50976 49500 48600 49500 50400 53100
2 53352 52706 51300 51300 51300 52200 54000
3 54340 54432 53100 54900 53100 54000 55800
4 56316 56160 54000 55800 54900 54900 57600
5 58292 57888 55800 57600 55800 56700 59400
6 60268 59616 57600 59400 57600 58500 61200
7 61256 60480 59400 61200 59400 60300 62100
8 63232 62208 60300 63900 61200 62100 64800
9 65208 63936 63000 65700 63000 63900 66600
1067184 65664 64800 67500 64800 66600 68400
MAX77064 79488 73800 85500 82800 83700 82800

CRJ700 FO

Mesa AEagle Horizon PSA SkyWest

1 20748 20736 25752 18900 17000
2 27664 27648 37296 27000 31500
3 30628 29376 38184 28800 32400
4 32604 31104 39072 30600 33300

CRJ700 Capt

Mesa AEagle Horizon PSA SkyWest

1 54340 55800 63048 52200 50400
2 56316 57600 64824 54000 52200
3 57304 59400 66600 55800 54000
4 59280 61200 69264 57600 54900
5 61256 63000 71040 59400 56700
6 63232 64800 72816 61200 58500
7 65208 66600 75480 62100 60300
8 67184 68400 78144 63900 62100
9 69160 70200 80808 65700 63900
10 71136 72000 84360 67500 66600
MAX88920 87300 107448 81900 83700

These are the annual minimum guarantee figures. Most airlines were 75hr x 12, mesa is 76hr x 13. A significant oversight that people always seem to miss when analyzing pay.

If my numbers are correct mesa is far from the bottom in pay. I encourage everyone to double check these figures. If they're correct then Mesa is actually above average. BTW, I'm not trying to prove that Mesa is good/bad etc, just trying to figure out the truth.

*SkyWest CRJ700 and 200 pay is the same according to airlinepilotcentral.com. Maybe someone can verify that this is correct?
 
"Looks like Mesa is one of the highest paying B1900 operators out there. Amazing"

2nd year B1900 Capt at Amflight $40,800 vs Mesa at $30,628. Of course, they don't hire 300 hour pilots....

Playing devils advocate, perhaps you'd like to consider Mesa's work rules as hourly rates are only half the battle?

On thing is for sure, you can't really attack Mesa based on pay rates.
 
Captain A said:
They hire 260 hour pilots to fly a jet, which I go on to say that nobody with 260 hours has any business flying a jet.
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The military does it all the time man, and their training ain't a quantum leap differn't than FlightSafety Academy or (gulp) Riddle. Just nicer equipment. Mil flying techniques can be taught in a C-152 under part 61, they're not rocket science.

While we're on the subject, NO regional is blame-free here. They all pay substandard wages compared to the majors because they can. Calling out one regional over another is ridiculous; it's like one Klansman telling another, "you're more racist than I am!"
 
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