Management compensation is worse than pilots?

No pay but you will get stocks for a company that hasn't even got off the ground? Wow...heard of will fly for food so what shall we call this?
 
Far worse in some cases. At ASA of the top 10 highest paid people in the company 6 or 7 were line pilots. (Line check airmen.)

Most captains earn more than people at the director level, especially non-pilot directors. You have to be a VP to earn more than a pilot, generally speaking. Of course that varies by airline. It seems to be true of JetBlue though, and it was definitely true at ASA.

Many line captains at ASA earned more than the Director of Flight Ops, for instance.

I don't have a problem with that in principle, since it's a big sacrifice to be on the road. But there is a school of thought that you get what you pay for, and cheap mgmt is bad mgmt.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Far worse in some cases. At ASA of the top 10 highest paid people in the company 6 or 7 were line pilots. (Line check airmen.)

Most captains earn more than people at the director level, especially non-pilot directors. You have to be a VP to earn more than a pilot, generally speaking. Of course that varies by airline. It seems to be true of JetBlue though, and it was definitely true at ASA.

Many line captains at ASA earned more than the Director of Flight Ops, for instance.

I don't have a problem with that in principle, since it's a big sacrifice to be on the road. But there is a school of thought that you get what you pay for, and cheap mgmt is bad mgmt.
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Well, OTOH, the guys who brought us the great crash of 08 were expensive management so yeah...
 
Will someone at least give me gas money to get to the office or a little cash for food?
 
Roger Roger said:
Well, OTOH, the guys who brought us the great crash of 08 were expensive management so yeah...
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I'm just saying that nobody goes to Wharton and thinks "I'm gonna go into airline management and make $125,000 a year at a regional as Director of Operations."

In no way am I saying that pilot pay is too high. Far from it, but I do think that part of the management issues we see at the regionals are also a compensation problem. If you're a bright young dispatcher who rises though the ranks to run a regional OCC, you don't spend a career at XJT. You look to United or Delta to get into their management structure. Same with scheduling. Why does scheduling suck so badly? They suck because they pay $8.00 an hour, and their "senior management" have been there 2 years due to the turnover rate.

The entire regional structure is broken, from the top down.
 
I posted the job opening for DO and I think there is some confusion with regards to the compensation/fee structure so please let me elaborate. At the current phase, the workload is 1-2 hours per month! if this is too much for you to do on an "if come" basis for an ownership stake that requires NO money from you... then clearly this is not the venture for you and you should stay at your salaried airline job and continue working for someone else. However, if you have a spare 1-2 hours per month and are willing to give this company a shot for the possibility of being an owner and director of operations, then please contact me. And YES... many people go to business school with the full intention of getting into the airline industry... but that is not what we are looking for, we have enough business degrees on board to spell the alphabet... we are looking for someone who is a pilot and wants a more stable work schedule, ownership opportunity and a COMPETITIVE salary once this becomes full time. YES the job is based in the Buffalo/Niagara region.. but until you know our plans I dont think you should be mocking the location we will be based. The Buffalo/Niagara region was votes as one of the best quality of life locations in the USA. Relocation is not necessary at this time, only if this gets approved by the FAA and DOT. We would be more than happy to buy you cat food if that is what you really need to join us.
 
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I am starting a business too, and if the next phase starts, I will have professional A&Ps working and tracking their hours, but they won't actually get paid until the following phase. I understand what this person claims to be doing.

I would recommend buyer beware, but stop slinging arrows here. If it is determined that this is a scam, or the person is part of the spiral down, then feel free to out him and the business.
 
Thanks Bumblebee. Feel free to google me (Eran Epstein) or what I have done in business. My website is www.escrealty.com. If after that you still think this is a scam... then I will be more than happy to remove my post.... however if after your do your due diligence you think this is something you want to be part of, please contact me... I would be more than happy to fill you in on who our team members are and our plans.
 
Bumblebee said:
I am starting a business too, and if the next phase starts, I will have professional A&Ps working and tracking their hours, but they won't actually get paid until the following phase. I understand what this person claims to be doing.
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:eek:
 
I just don't think it's wise for someone to take on the responsibility of the DO position and only put about "1-2 hours per month" of effort in to The job. Will this person be expected to be a puppet, or is someone else handling the paperwork for you and asking for a name?

I'm not trying to be facetious, just curious.
 
Eran Epstein said:
Thanks Bumblebee. Feel free to google me (Eran Epstein) or what I have done in business. My website is www.escrealty.com. If after that you still think this is a scam... then I will be more than happy to remove my post.... however if after your do your due diligence you think this is something you want to be part of, please contact me... I would be more than happy to fill you in on who our team members are and our plans.
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I would love to speak with you sometime...I may even call you tomorrow regarding what we're doing.
 
Eran Epstein said:
if this is too much for you to do....
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Don't get all defensive about it. We've all heard the story of house Southwest got its start by a few guys drawing a route map out on a napkin but in general we don't expect to hear about starting a new airline from a free ad in barnstormers.

Maybe you can describe a little more about the vision? Number and type of aircraft to start? Type of airline 121 or 135? While Buffalo might offer a nice quality of life, I hardly think that is your main reason for selecting as HQ? Are you looking to create some kind of route structure from Buffalo? What's your niche?
 
Beep said:
I just don't think it's wise for someone to take on the responsibility of the DO position and only put about "1-2 hours per month" of effort in to The job. Will this person be expected to be a puppet, or is someone else handling the paperwork for you and asking for a name?

I'm not trying to be facetious, just curious.
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it saddens me that so many highly educated people do not read the posts and simply reply. at our current phase, there is no job! I am trying to assemble the necessary people to apply to the faa and dot for approval. if you have not done your research on the certification process for a part 121 operation then you really have no business posting uneducated comments about the 1-2 hours per month at this phase is insufficient and that the person would be a puppet. i am doing the bulk of the paper work and putting up the bulk of the money. should this airline get certified, our DO would work full time, get payed a competitive salary, receive stock options, be eligible for type certification in a 767 and get full benefits... but hey... i guess this is to good to be true... oh, and all these promises are going to be spelled out in a contract between all the initial participants so that there is no chance of anyone getting cut out.
 
propsync said:
Don't get all defensive about it. We've all heard the story of house Southwest got its start by a few guys drawing a route map out on a napkin but in general we don't expect to hear about starting a new airline from a free ad in barnstormers.

Maybe you can describe a little more about the vision? Number and type of aircraft to start? Type of airline 121 or 135? While Buffalo might offer a nice quality of life, I hardly think that is your main reason for selecting as HQ? Are you looking to create some kind of route structure from Buffalo? What's your niche?
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propsync i have no problem sharing all the information you asked for. I do have a vision and very good reasons for selecting Buffalo/Niagara as our home base and a VERY good niche... so no offense taken... call me at the office and I can fill you in on the broad strokes... if after that you want more info, I will send you a confidentiality agreement and then share our business plan.
 
Eran Epstein said:
it saddens me that so many highly educated people do not read the posts and simply reply. at our current phase, there is no job! I am trying to assemble the necessary people to apply to the faa and dot for approval. if you have not done your research on the certification process for a part 121 operation then you really have no business posting uneducated comments about the 1-2 hours per month at this phase is insufficient and that the person would be a puppet. i am doing the bulk of the paper work and putting up the bulk of the money. should this airline get certified, our DO would work full time, get payed a competitive salary, receive stock options, be eligible for type certification in a 767 and get full benefits... but hey... i guess this is to good to be true... oh, and all these promises are going to be spelled out in a contract between all the initial participants so that there is no chance of anyone getting cut out.
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Well, I do understand that part of the application process is to determine that the applicant's key personnel have the background, and experience necessary for the operations that they are applying to be approved for.

I'm not going to assume that you have or have not had previous experience with obtaining an air carrier certificate, I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't use the DO as a resource for more than an hour or two per month during this process.

I understand that my first post in this thread was a bit smarmy, so I can see why you reacted to the second post the way you did, but I did not state that the person " would be a puppet ", I simply asked if they would.

I really do wish you the best on this, and I hope it is a success.
 
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