Looking for opinions on what a CFI would do with my situation today

Vector4Food

Vector4Food

This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Or any other pilot...

Went flying today.

TAF called for winds to drop to 10 knots at 1600, further reduction to 8 knots at 1900

Flight booked for 1700, winds were 60 degrees at 12G21, so we sat around for a while waiting for the forecast to come true.

Which it did, the winds dropped to 40 degrees crosswind and 8G16 about 30 minutes later and remained so during preflight and runup/takeoff.

With that in mind, and the forecast saying even better, off we went, uneventful flight, for about 1.5

When I checked back in with tower, got cleared for runway 29, winds 350 @ 18G26 :aghast: a quick bit of a math in my head and it's the most into wind runway and a 22.5 knot crosswind component.

The nearest airport to me is over 45 minutes away minimum, and I have about 2.5 hours worth of fuel, and no guarantee those airports are any better.

So, I shot the approach, I wonder now looking back if being "prudent" would call for me to loiter until the winds dropped, but I have been caught like this before in the last 12 years of flying, and landed without event...

That being said I am a stereotypical "weekend warrior" now, flying only 4-5 times a month.

Anywho, the landing, while definitely fun and challenging, with lots of things to keep my attention was in the end, uneventful.

A 172 following us had about a 30 degree wing dip about 20 feet off the runway,which was not fun to watch!

Anyway I guess the question is, should I have loitered around waiting for favourable winds, or is what I did acceptable to most?

The video just doesn't do justice to how much effort was needed, just about full rudder authority at times, sorry the length of video my editor is not working on this computer, you can of course fast forward the video, my first indication was the amount of crab I had on during downwind.

Video still processing but should be up soon...

 
Are you asking what a CFI would do or what you should have done?

I would just go ahead and land, I've landed many times with x-wind blowing few knots above the demonstrated velocity. I would add perhaps 8 knots (rather than 4) to the Vref and use half flaps. That's assuming a familiar aircraft.

I would stay on the ground if it's an unfamiliar aircraft or I feel I'm not current. In fact two weeks ago I had to do just that in the Pawnee, since I had under 5 hours in the aircraft. So that's what I'd do if I were you.
 
canadian_atc said:
Anyway I guess the question is, should I have loitered around waiting for favourable winds, or is what I did acceptable to most?
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You can wait for better winds, but they may get worse too. A 172 will land just fine in a 20kt x-wind. I wouldn't have soloing students doing so, but it isn't like the thing will burst into flames. If it is really too much, hit the gas and go around. But you'll get a fell for whether you have enough rudder or not.
 
Since landing in a cross wind that high would require me to exceed the published performance specifications for that aircraft I would abort the approach and land in the nearest FSDO parking lot, walk in, and surrender my pilot certificate :D

OK, seriously, I'd fly the approach and feel it out...as long as you have control authority, land the airplane.... big runway, land at an angle if needed...crab just to touchdown, kick it straight as the mains come down ... or if still too bad land on a taxiway (ZOMG!...no seriously, it's pavement and you're in a 1500 pound airplane...).

By the way, great time to raise the flaps in the flare and plant the sucker.
 
I have only diverted for wind one time in NM, but it was 35 g 50
Found a runway into the wind....shortest rollout ever!!

Seriously tho you used hardly any of that wide runway, now if you couldn't keep it from drifting off the runway, go around and try again or find a better runway.
It's awesome that you are here asking these questions....good on you! Because I know a lot of pilots that after making that landing wouldn't be able to walk through doorways due to the increased head swelling from being so awesome!!
 
Thanks all.

I really didn't give it a lot of thought until after the fact, flown every airplane I've flown at above the quote "limits" with no effort.

Only thing I consider is that because I fly so infrequently, it's probably been a year since I've flown with a crosswind like that.
 
If I was sitting right seat on that flight teaching, my only criticism in the landing would have been a sideways glance on short final, which would hopefully prompt you to add a little power (you did). Other than that, the landing seemed fine to me - on the center line, and no apparent side-loading. What others have said is true as well - 20 degrees of flaps (I'm assuming that's a 172) and 1/2 the gust factor added to approach speed. Also, go-arounds are free.

As far as ADM is concerned, seems like you evaluated the risks, made the decision, and prepared for the consequences. I would wonder if there was a little impulsivity in there though?
 
Other than landing on the "amateur side" of the centerline, it looked good to me! :D

Next time in the 172, on a runway that long with the same or stronger cross wind, try NO FLAPS.
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
Other than landing on the "amateur side" of the centerline, it looked good to me! :D

Next time in the 172, on a runway that long with the same or stronger cross wind, try NO FLAPS.
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Seriously, why do students land on the left side of the runway? Everyone does it, at every airport, and I can't figure out why!
 
Know your limits, and as an instructor expect to take charge of the situation if things unexpectedly go above your personal limits.

I have landed a Skyhawk in a 25 knot crosswind no problem. It was a situation where I could have chosen another runway, and I was ready to abort the landing and mash the throttle into the firewall, going around if I didn't like what was taking place (this was back when I was a student with another instructor).

Do I really want to find myself in that situation though? For that reason, I have set my personal minimums to 20 knot crosswind. Fortunately, the area where I fly there are a lot of options for different runways so it has never really been an issue.

One quick tip with crosswind landings, to have better control, is to use a lesser flap setting, and come in at a little faster approach speed.

As others have said, it also depends on your experience with the airplane. I instruct in a Citabria as well. That plane can handle a LOT of crosswind. I've landed that plane in a wheel landing with a 25 knot crosswind no problem! However, instructing, sitting in the backseat, required to do only 3 point landings with my presolo students, I am currently only comfortable with landing in max of a 15 knot crosswind. As I get more familiar with the airplane, that limit has gone up from lesser. If I ever got caught in a situation with a 20 knot crosswind, I know I can do it but it would be a little more uncomfortable. If worst comes to worst, I would just do a wheel landing if all else failed.

Remember that crosswind component in the AFM or POH is merely a maximum demonstrated crosswind. It is not a legal limitation, and the airplane can handle more. Know your limits and the airplane's limits though. Keep it out of the dirt, and don't bend metal.

Nice landing in the video btw. :D
 
Wolfy said:
Seriously, why do students land on the left side of the runway? Everyone does it, at every airport, and I can't figure out why!
Click to expand...

LOL, I know right!

The things I say more than anything else

"right rudder"
"track the center line"
"flare, flare, flare"
"you flared too soon"
"you flared too late"
"I think we should do some ground before the next flight"
 
sounddoc said:
If I was sitting right seat on that flight teaching, my only criticism in the landing would have been a sideways glance on short final, which would hopefully prompt you to add a little power (you did). Other than that, the landing seemed fine to me - on the center line, and no apparent side-loading. What others have said is true as well - 20 degrees of flaps (I'm assuming that's a 172) and 1/2 the gust factor added to approach speed. Also, go-arounds are free.

As far as ADM is concerned, seems like you evaluated the risks, made the decision, and prepared for the consequences. I would wonder if there was a little impulsivity in there though?
Click to expand...

For sure, I mean, I don't fly often enough, and when I get the chance, there's a bit of personal push to make it happen, but I felt like with the information provided, TAF said winds would drop, they did drop, but somehow an hour later came back up (only lasted for an hour btw then dropped again)

That being said back when flew regularily I would have felt more comfortable over all, my flying skills are never going to be AS good as they used to be only flying 3-4 times per month at most, so the odds of me catching some challenging conditions are thereby slim.
 
FWIW I landed on the left side I'm guessing because the crosswind was pretty strong from the right and I let it get me too far left of center.

Honestly, had that been a 50 foot strip I used to fly meat bombers out of, would not have attempted it in the first place.
 
Just noticed in another video I posted I landed there to the left of centreline too :confused:

damn flaws
 
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