Logging time while not day/night current

K

Kalikiano

New Member
I will be flying tomorrow with another pilot who I believe is non CFI. As of right now I am not night/day current nor am I IFR current.

1. Can I log hours towards total time just not PIC?

2. If I fly and land the plane can I count them towards my day/night requirements since Im not solo nor can I act as PIC with a passenger.
 
Kalikiano said:
I will be flying tomorrow with another pilot who I believe is non CFI. As of right now I am not night/day current nor am I IFR current.

1. Can I log hours towards total time just not PIC?

2. If I fly and land the plane can I count them towards my day/night requirements since Im not solo nor can I act as PIC with a passenger.
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1. You're not logging PIC, you're not logging SIC, and unless the other guy is a CFI, you can't log dual given. You can log it however you want, but just be prepared to explain it.

2. If the guy sitting next to you is a CFI then you can log the flight as PIC so long as he signs you off. Otherwise, you can't legally take anyone but yourself (unless you're flying an airplane that requires more than one crewmember).

That is my understanding at least, you get what you pay for ;)
 
You need to be qualified to fly the plane to log the hours. How can you log time if you're not current or aren't training?
 
Kalikiano said:
Can I log hours towards total time just not PIC?
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You can log all the time as PIC when you're the sole manipulator of the controls for an aircraft in which you are rated. Currency is irrelevant. You are not ACTING as PIC, you are logging PIC in accordance to 61.51(e)(i).
 
If the other pilot isn't a CFI, and the OP isn't current, then isn't the other pilot a passenger? In which case it's not legal unless the pilot is current?
 
killbilly said:
If the other pilot isn't a CFI, and the OP isn't current, then isn't the other pilot a passenger? In which case it's not legal unless the pilot is current?
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You're conflating ACTING as PIC with LOGGING PIC. Two different things. Check out the link in my sig.
 
tgrayson said:
You're conflating ACTING as PIC with LOGGING PIC. Two different things. Check out the link in my sig.
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No, my question isn't about logging. It's about making the actual FLIGHT. The way it reads to me, he can't even take a passenger up, legally, unless he's current. The question of logging/acting PIC seems secondary.
 
killbilly said:
If the other pilot isn't a CFI, and the OP isn't current, then isn't the other pilot a passenger? In which case it's not legal unless the pilot is current?
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:yeahthat:

I don't see what ACTING vs. LOGGING has to do with it if he's only supposed to be in the plane alone.

It's late and I may be misunderstanding this, but that's what I got out of it.
 
killbilly said:
No, my question isn't about logging. It's about making the actual FLIGHT. The way it reads to me, he can't even take a passenger up, legally, unless he's current. The question of logging/acting PIC seems secondary.
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Are you reading my mind?
 
tgrayson said:
Because the OP asked about LOGGING, and you stated "You need to be qualified to fly the plane to log the hours," which is not true.
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When I said qualified, I meant current. Regardless of how he logs the hours, I was saying he shouldn't be flying unless current to log the hours(with a passenger on board). No, you don't have to be "qualified" but that's in general. I was referring to this occasion and what I should have said was "current."

What I am saying is that if he isn't current in that airplane, then he can only log the hours if he is alone in the plane. Like KillBilly said, the flight can't take place unless the other guy is a CFI.
 
BrewMaster said:
When I said qualified, I meant current. Regardless of how he logs the hours, I was saying he shouldn't be flying unless current to log the hours(with a passenger on board). No, you don't have to be "qualified" but that's in general. I was referring to this occasion and what I should have said was "current."
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I don't understand any of that paragraph.

What I am saying is that if he isn't current in that airplane, then he can only log the hours if he is alone in the plane. Like KillBilly said, the flight can't take place unless the other guy is a CFI.
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And that's still wrong. Currency is irrelevant to logging PIC time as the sole manipulator. Moreover, there is nothing magical about having a CFI on board that makes the flight possible.
 
BrewMaster said:
We are just going around in circles here....

I'm calling it a day.
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You just don't understand.

If Pilot A is current and acting as PIC, Pilot B is the passenger until Pilot A allows Pilot B to manipulate the controls. At that point, Pilot B may log PIC under 61.51 as the sole manipulator of the controls, while Pilot A is ACTING as PIC.

61.57
Sec. 61.57 - Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.
(a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days, and --
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61.51
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in- command time only for that flight time during which that person --
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;
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BrewMaster said:
We are just going around in circles here....

I'm calling it a day.
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I think you may be confusing not only "acting" with "logging" but also "acting as PIC" with "handling the controls."

Two pilot go up on a night flight. Pilot A is current. Pilot B is not night current, hasn't had FR in 15 years and has no medical.

Pilot A can agree to be the pilot in command of the flight with all the responsibility for the safety of the flight and allow Pilot B to do 100% of the flying. Pilot A is the PIC; Pilot B is the passenger.

That's it for the acting as PIC part. Ot's what makes the flight legal.

Now we switch to logging. That mean we go to FAR 61.51 for the time logging and 61.57 for the landing logging and (most important) forget about "acting as PIC" altogether unless logging reg uses the term.

Kalikiano, you can log your "sole manipulator" time under 61.51(e)(1)(i) and the landings you make under 61.57(b). Doesn't matter if you're not current.
 
mojo6911 said:
You just don't understand.

If Pilot A is current and acting as PIC, Pilot B is the passenger until Pilot A allows Pilot B to manipulate the controls. At that point, Pilot B may log PIC under 61.51 as the sole manipulator of the controls, while Pilot A is ACTING as PIC.

61.57


61.51
Click to expand...

Phew! That summed it up for me.
 
I think I need to swallow my pride, man up, and apologize. It was pretty late for me and for some reason I was thinking neither pilot was current. I was kind of shooting from the hip. I went back this morning and reread it and now I understand.

Apologies.







(insert 5 more after-the-fact, pointless and self-gratifying threads quoting 61.57 and telling me "You just don't understand" ;))
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I think you may be confusing not only "acting" with "logging" but also "acting as PIC" with "handling the controls."

Two pilot go up on a night flight. Pilot A is current. Pilot B is not night current, hasn't had FR in 15 years and has no medical.

Pilot A can agree to be the pilot in command of the flight with all the responsibility for the safety of the flight and allow Pilot B to do 100% of the flying. Pilot A is the PIC; Pilot B is the passenger.
Click to expand...

I understand this rationale and have also read tgrayson's link on logging/acting in his sig. I have to really wonder, though, if the FAA would really accept Pilot A as acting PIC if there was an accident while Pilot B was sole manipulator, was not current, and both pilots were private or commercial rated without CFI certificates and operating a single pilot plane. I think in the eyes of the FAA they would deem Pilot B as acting and therefore be flying illegally if not current and having another person with them (passenger), irregardless if the passenger was a properly rated and current pilot. I was under the impression the only times a pilot not manipulating the controls could act as PIC in an aircraft certified for single pilot operations only, was during the time in which they served as a safety pilot and the other pilot flew under simulated instrument conditions, or when acting as an instructor.

I'm not challenging anyone's assertion, really just looking for clarity on the matter.
 
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