Logging Instrument and the Little Red Log Book

M

MusketeerMan

Well-Known Member
OK...so how do/did you FO's log your instrument time? Do you actually log your instrument time? I don't think it should matter anymore since it'll probably never be a requirement anymore in the future, but was just curious. I know as an FO you only log instrument during your leg, but I was told night is always logged by both...is that true?

Also, most of the pilots I've flown with use a little red log book. Do most of you use that??? Any other good alternatives??
 
MusketeerMan said:
OK...so how do/did you FO's log your instrument time? Do you actually log your instrument time? I don't think it should matter anymore since it'll probably never be a requirement anymore in the future, but was just curious. I know as an FO you only log instrument during your leg, but I was told night is always logged by both...is that true?
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I only log instrument if I am the pilot flying. I also only log it if I shoot an actual approach (anything less then VFR) and then I normally log .3 even if the whole leg was in the clouds.

Any time the aircraft is operated at "night" both pilots can log the time.


MusketeerMan said:
Also, most of the pilots I've flown with use a little red log book. Do most of you use that??? Any other good alternatives??
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Treo + APDL = da bomb diggity yo!
 
http://www.logbookpro.com/Learn.asp...ilots-daily-aviation-logbook&Section=Overview


You'll toss the red book out the window. Nothing like just inputing the info straight off of ACARS into your Treo, coming home, clicking "sync" and having it automagically entered into your logbook.

Instrument time is a grey area b/c the FAA says "operating" the aircraft. Technically, the SIC is required to "operate" the plane, so you could make the arguement for logging instrument time the same way you log night time. Both are considered conditions of flight, so it seems odd that you can log one and not the other. I used to log it no matter whose leg it was since you can make that argument. Now that I have enough instrument time for 1 1/2 ATP ratings, I'm lucky if I remeber to log it at all. Generally, it only gets logged if I shot an approach. And by "I shot an approach" I mean I was the one flying.
 
kellwolf said:
http://www.logbookpro.com/Learn.asp...ilots-daily-aviation-logbook&Section=Overview


You'll toss the red book out the window. Nothing like just inputing the info straight off of ACARS into your Treo, coming home, clicking "sync" and having it automagically entered into your logbook.

Instrument time is a grey area b/c the FAA says "operating" the aircraft. Technically, the SIC is required to "operate" the plane, so you could make the arguement for logging instrument time the same way you log night time. Both are considered conditions of flight, so it seems odd that you can log one and not the other. I used to log it no matter whose leg it was since you can make that argument. Now that I have enough instrument time for 1 1/2 ATP ratings, I'm lucky if I remeber to log it at all. Generally, it only gets logged if I shot an approach. And by "I shot an approach" I mean I was the one flying.
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TREO and Logbook Pro = 2nd (or 3rd) year pay. :D
 
Heh, trust me it's worth it when you upgrade and have to do that 8710. Sync, point click, print, done.

Everyone else in my class was frantically updating and totalling their logbooks and trying to find "Night PIC" time. I was done in about 32 seconds.

Oh, and you can get a decent Treo on eBay for under $100. I bought two. :)
 
kellwolf said:
Heh, trust me it's worth it when you upgrade and have to do that 8710. Sync, point click, print, done.

Everyone else in my class was frantically updating and totalling their logbooks and trying to find "Night PIC" time. I was done in about 32 seconds.

Oh, and you can get a decent Treo on eBay for under $100. I bought two. :)
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I have a hunch that as soon as the SDK for the iPhone is fully released in June you're going to see logbook pro or something similar ported to the iphone....
 
As far as logging.

If you only log the time you fly, it is much easier to explain. As a 1900 driver in the N.E., were i to log every bit of time the airplane was in the clouds, my Actual Instrument would prob. be like 25%+ of my total time... At an interview 10% is kinda the rule of thumb. 25% would draw scrutiny.

As it is, i think "loosely" loggging it, i still sit somewhere around 15% of my total time.
 
killbilly said:
I have a hunch that as soon as the SDK for the iPhone is fully released in June you're going to see logbook pro or something similar ported to the iphone....
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you wont see logbook pro, that guy is as anti-mac as they come. You probably will see something come along though. I'll probably be way late to the game but i am working on a mac (probably only going to be intel-mac 10.4 and higher, but may go down to the ppc macs) logbook application and eventually an iphone app to basically do what APDL does. no timeframe though :)
 
This is definitely one of those grey areas the feds have failed to properly address. I'm sure if you ask this question to 3 different feds, you'll get three different answers. Instrument time, like night time, is a condition of flight. I log it for all legs that we are in IFR conditions. However, you can only log the approaches that you fly personally. Again, just my opinion, and there are plenty of them on this issue. Just do it in a legally justified manner until it doesn't matter anymore.
 
I've always logged instrument time as instrument time regardless of whose leg it was. No idea what actual percentage of my total time is instument, but I'd guess it's probably around 25%. You get a lot of it in the mighty Saab.

Just because things don't matter anymore doesn't mean I don't log it. I'm one of those logs individual legs in the logbook guys.
 
I log instrument time in the "Little Red Book" whether it's my leg or the Captain's leg.

Let me ask you this. If it's night time but your Captain is flying, are you not going to log night time and log day time? Uh, no!

It's called "conditions of flight." If you are in IMC, it is instrument time. Monitoring the instrument panel while your captain is flying the leg is no different than monitoring the instrument panel while your auto-pilot is flying the leg.
 
What's the Centro's screen resolution, and does it have touch screen?

Silly questions for a Palm product, but just checking.
 
Actually, the Centro has a 5-way navigator button, not a touch screen. APDL and Logbook Pro need a touch screen to work.
 
I wouldn't get too picky Andy. Honestly, just estimate the best you can. When I was flying the 1900 in the NE, during the fall/winter was IMC almost everyday. I just logged a few ticks here and a few ticks there so that it was "to the best of my knowledge" accurate.

When I interviewed here, they (Chief pilot/HR) didn't even care. He just opened my book, flipped through a few pages and closed it up. I don't think its a big deal.

Just make sure you get your essentials logged for the ATP. Definitely make sure you have enough X/C PIC for the ATP!! I'll tell ya about that story later. ;)
 
Like Madmax said, anyone with a Mac should check out http://coradine.com/ Logten pro is a great logbook program, easily comparable to logbook pro. And it has iPhone compatibility NOW. I have this coupon code also if anyone wants to try it out: B53EA1780
 
So it does (the Centro). Question is....does it have a stylus. I'd be fat fingering every entry without a stylus. :)


As for the iPhone, no official version is planned from Logbook Pro according to the FAQs on their web site.
 
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