Logging dual given from backseat
- Thread starter Trip7
- Start date
jrh
Well-Known Member
Well, I was doing it just the other day in a PA-12 Piper Supercruiser, except there was only one pilot up front...it'd get REALLY tight if you tried to squeeze two in up there...
Now, could I give dual instruction in a PA-12 with me up front and two pilots in back? I think so!
Look up pictures and stats on the PA-12 if you're completely lost as to what I'm talking about.
All joking aside, I don't see any legit way for you to do what you're talking about. Call your FSDO and see what they have to say about it.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
When?
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
My old instructor got his MEI and CFII in the late-90's at ATP.
Clocks
Well-Known Member
Heh interesting. The airplane must have two pilot stations...but I don't have to be at one of them? :buck:
61.195
(g) Position in aircraft and required pilot stations for providing flight training.
(1) A flight instructor must perform all training from in an aircraft that complies with the requirements of §91.109 of this chapter.
(2) A flight instructor who provides flight training for a pilot certificate or rating issued under this part must provide that flight training in an aircraft that meets the following requirements—
(i) The aircraft must have at least two pilot stations and be of the same category, class, and type, if appropriate, that applies to the pilot certificate or rating sought.
(ii) For single-place aircraft, the pre-solo flight training must have been provided in an aircraft that has two pilot stations and is of the same category, class, and type, if appropriate.
61.195
(g) Position in aircraft and required pilot stations for providing flight training.
(1) A flight instructor must perform all training from in an aircraft that complies with the requirements of §91.109 of this chapter.
(2) A flight instructor who provides flight training for a pilot certificate or rating issued under this part must provide that flight training in an aircraft that meets the following requirements—
(i) The aircraft must have at least two pilot stations and be of the same category, class, and type, if appropriate, that applies to the pilot certificate or rating sought.
(ii) For single-place aircraft, the pre-solo flight training must have been provided in an aircraft that has two pilot stations and is of the same category, class, and type, if appropriate.
esa17
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't log time from the back. You're just asking for trouble and I don't see it as worth it. In the unlikely event that you were caught I think you'd have a hard time getting your ATP afterwards. How many times do you find yourself in this position? Since I've had my PPL I can count on one hand the number of times I've been in the back seat of a plane, that minuscule amount of time won't make a lick of difference in my logbook anyway.
Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
Ahhh... gotcha... before my time.
If you're a CFI-A giving instruction in an airplane, you can log that time as both PIC and dual given. If you're sitting up front, in the back, or hanging off the landing gear, you can log it as such as long as you're giving instruction.
Now, if you're in the back sleeping, you can't log it. I admit, it'd be hard to prove if you were teaching or not, but theres' nothing inherently wrong with logging PIC/DG from the backseat.
Now, if you're in the back sleeping, you can't log it. I admit, it'd be hard to prove if you were teaching or not, but theres' nothing inherently wrong with logging PIC/DG from the backseat.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
It was and that is why they(and a few or flight schools) stop doing it.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Don't forget the 4 peple logging scenario - 2 pilots in the front, 2 CFIs in the back. All logging PIC.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Yes and no.
If you go with the way the rules are written, yes. One scenario that I think is legit works like this:
o Instrument Student in left seat - logs PIC as sole manipulator.
o Safety Pilot acting as PIC for the flight - logs PIC as a safety pilot who is acting as PIC
o CFI in the back seat (say he has no medical and can't act as PIC or be a safety pilot) - logs PIC as an instructor giving flight instruction.
The "no" comes in when you try to stretch it into situations where the three positions are completely unnecessary and there is a basis for the FAA to come in and and cry "Sham!" That's the same territory we're in when we discuss other types of instruction scenarios that sound more like playing with the rules to build time than legit activities.
tgrayson
New Member
I've seen nothing that says "no". One could argue that the requirement for dual controls implies that the instructor should be sitting at one, but so far, there has been no letter of interpretation saying so.
I'm with Midlife in that if the FAA actually took a look at this, I bet they'd call it a sham.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
I was actually shown a scenerio where 6 people could log PIC.
I've only seen one really legit scenerio. It was a DPE with a broken ankle who gave a checkride from the backseat while the students CFI rode in the right seat.
