Logbook question...

GreenDayPilot

GreenDayPilot

Well-Known Member
I'm sure I MIGHT be able to find the answer to my question somewhere in a book, but it's just easier to ask you guys.

How do you know what time to log on your logbook? Is there a rule that says you have to go by a hobbs meter? Hobbs meter vary on when they start ticking.... battery on, engine on, wheels up, etc.... What if I just got inside an airplane and used a timer to count from the moment I stepped in to the airplane to the moment I stepped out? Would that count as time?

Over a few years there could be a major difference between a wheels-up hobbs that only records in-flight time compared to a timer method or even a hobbs that starts ticking once you turn on the engine(s).

***
PLEASE don't bother answering with

"It's recommended..."
or
"It's not wise to...."
or
"Airlines are not gonna like it if you..."

I'm looking for some concrete answers. Something that is actually written down on paper (ie, FAR/AIM).
 
The only concrete answer I can think of is when the airplane is operated for the purpose of flight, or something like that. The FAA doesn't say use Hobbs, tach, stopwatch, sundial or whatever.
 
It's recommended you log whatever it's not wise to log, but then again, the airlines are not going to like it if you log it that way.:D
 
GreenDayPilot said:
How do you know what time to log on your logbook?

..

What if I just got inside an airplane and used a timer to count from the moment I stepped in to the airplane to the moment I stepped out? Would that count as time?
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This one's easy and cut and dry. From the moment it moves under it's own power for the purpose of flight.
 
wheelsup said:
This one's easy and cut and dry. From the moment it moves under it's own power for the purpose of flight.
Click to expand...

I like that answer, but is it anywhere on paper? Aren't people (like in airlines, I assume) getting gipped for taxi and run-up time? I used to fly airplanes that only started the hobbs timer as soon as the airplane took off (squat switch). Those 15 mins of ground time can add up to a good amount over time
 
GreenDayPilot said:
I like that answer, but is it anywhere on paper? Aren't people (like in airlines, I assume) getting gipped for taxi and run-up time? I used to fly airplanes that only started the hobbs timer as soon as the airplane took off (squat switch). Those 15 mins of ground time can add up to a good amount over time
Click to expand...

Most people will add 0.2 or so to the Hobbs time for just that reason.
 
Moves under its own power, is first forward motion on the wheels. Taxi time is included. I know that what the FAA uses for part 121 block time rules (ie. 30/7 100/month).
 
GreenDayPilot said:
I like that answer, but is it anywhere on paper? Aren't people (like in airlines, I assume) getting gipped for taxi and run-up time? I used to fly airplanes that only started the hobbs timer as soon as the airplane took off (squat switch). Those 15 mins of ground time can add up to a good amount over time
Click to expand...

FAR part 1, definition of "flight time"

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing


Keep in mind, 'for the purpose of flight' means exactly that, not so much the takeoff roll. If you ground repo a plane, you can't log that, because you weren't intending to fly. If you taxi'd out and had a mechanical and came back, you could log that because you started out with the intent to fly.

One of the things my airline does is differentiate between "pushback" and "out" time. Pushback times are paid, but do not count against the FAR block limits. So I don't log the pushback times, while some airlines don't differentiate between the two.
 
GreenDayPilot said:
I like that answer, but is it anywhere on paper?
Click to expand...

Yes, the answer is to be found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 14 -- Aeronautics and Space.

Some people call 'em "the FARs". :)


[SIZE=+1]CHAPTER I--FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION [/SIZE]


PART 1--DEFINITIONS AND ABBREVIATIONS

§ 1.1 General definitions.


Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when
an aircraft moves under its own power
for the purpose of flight and ends when
the aircraft comes to rest after landing;




For future reference: 1.1 General Definitions


14 CFR, the "whole shebang" : The Code of Federal Regulations




.
 
Eh, I knew it was an easy answer, but I was just too lazy look for it... I didn't even consider chapter 1.....

...but more than anything, I just testing you (riiiiight)
 
I pretty much take my block times and add 0.7, you know, just in case I accidently short changed myself on the block times :)
 
wheelsup said:
FAR part 1, definition of "flight time"

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing


Keep in mind, 'for the purpose of flight' means exactly that, not so much the takeoff roll. If you ground repo a plane, you can't log that, because you weren't intending to fly. If you taxi'd out and had a mechanical and came back, you could log that because you started out with the intent to fly.
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Sorry, I just can't let this one get by.

I read the definition in whole to mean that a landing has to occur after a flight. You gotta fly to log flight time. It is my personal opinion that the aircraft moves for the purpose of flight after you do the required mechanical checks to insure that it is ready to fly. That would be when you are moving for the purpose of flight. But I'm not gonna tell you that you have to interpret the rule that way,but I am gonna say you have to have a take-off and a landing to call the time 'flight time'.

It does not matter how you are paid, or how you are charged, that does not enter into the FAA definition at all.
 
nosehair said:
but I am gonna say you have to have a take-off and a landing to call the time 'flight time'.
Click to expand...

I see what you are saying, and actually have been persuaded now and agree. I think I remember seeing you post on this before. I think you are the only one that interprets it this way :). My Company certainly doesn't.
 
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