Letter to Skywest Pilots

[Wing_96]

Wing, the reason we as commerical airline pilots just can't 'walk off the job' is the Railway Labor Act.

Highly illegal to just walk away.

You mean you can't quit your job? I understand that you can't strike, but surely you can quit.

If you want to get in a career in aviation, don't attack the union. Volunteer, help out with the union and make it better, for YOU.

I'm not attacking Seggy. I'm questioning. Like I said, I'm an outsider looking in. The reason I ask these questions is so I can make it better, for EVERYBODY.

 

[Seggy]

You mean you can't quit your job? I understand that you can't strike, but surely you can quit.

When you are at a major, quitting isn't really an option. Then where are you going to go? Start at the bottom of another major? Not as easy as that.

I'm not attacking Seggy. I'm questioning. Like I said, I'm an outsider looking in. The reason I ask these questions is so I can make it better, for EVERYBODY.

It is good that you are questioning and I am answering your questions. You want to make it better? VOLUNTEER and GET INVOLVED with your union!

 

[Getburned]

Non-union carriers need to step up and get representation. The few benefits that we all enjoy were negioated by unions. Jumpseat privileges alone make it worth it to me, Union = Job insurance. Plain and simple. If Skywest gets a union, Regional carriers could change the landscape entirely, its hard to negioate when you guys have sub-par rates on your larger equipment, we took a huge hit in pay because of your current payrates. The sky's the limit, and its time to take back what has been lost and set up a better system for future pilots.

 

[Airdale]

So, if they can't strike, which seems like it would be ideal, why don't they just quit? In any other industry (it seems), if you are getting screwed at your job, you quit and go get another one. I realize it's not quite this simple because of senority, and other things I don't know about, but man, it seems like it should be that simple.

When the excutives at United (and AA too?) took their bonuses after hosing the employees out of wages and benefits, I thought all the pilots should have walked that day. I didn't realize at the time that pilots can't strike whenever they like...but that is part of the problem IMO, don't y'all think? It seems to me, like the contracts are too restrictive in terms of protecting your rights, pay, benefits, etc... Plus, to know that the White House (regardless of who's in it) has the authority to tell the pilots that they have to work is way too big gov't for me.

It just seems to me that the unions have not provided enough flexibility and protection to their members. Again, I'm an outsider looking in.

I do not like the lesser of two evils logic when it comes to pay-cuts and benefits. What if the airline mgmt wanted more pay-cuts? More benefit cuts? For example, new FO's only make $20K/year now, so I guess they would be willing to except $10K/year because it is better than not working? That is ridiculous...it's ridiculous because pilots agree to that crap.

We need to be more like professional athletes (not by fighting dogs and using steroids) because they always look for more. When one QB gets a $10 million contract, the next QB doesn't say, "I'll do it for $6 million," but quite the contrary. The next QB says I want $12 million. We need to be like that. We need to stop accepting pay that is just insulting, and start demanding what we are worth. And just like athletes, some pilots are worth more than others, but I don't think any career pilot should be at the poverty level.

Agree 100%. The problem stems from Government law and regulation. The Government wanted to Deregulate the Airline Industry. What they actually did was deregulate the Airline industry to a certain extent. The government continues to line its own pockets at the Airlines expense, bail the Airlines out when CEO's make mistakes and limit the resources that pilots have to lobby for proper compensation and work rules.

Its a giant Charlie Foxtrot and what needs to happen is a large group of Professional pilots need to march, not only on management but on Washington. We need to fix the problem at the root, not the branches.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

You mean you can't quit your job? I understand that you can't strike, but surely you can quit.

Why not just say, "I don't like unions"? That's what you're saying, right?

What do you do for a living? Do you work in aviation, or even have any desire to fly for a living?

 

[TonyC]

Today- I met with the MEC Chairman of FEDEX Dave Webb, along with Captain TonyC(our very own JC Member) and First Officer Clinton (can't remember his last name) former SKYW pilot. All three gentleman took the time out of their day to come and talk to our pilot group.

That means a lot in this day and age of time is money. It was a strong show of support from one pilot group, to another.

It was my pleasure to spend the day meeting and talking with SkyWest pilots, and I enjoyed having the chance to meet you, "mrivc211." What's good for SkyWest pilots is good for FedEx pilots, and vice versa. This reality is forcefully demonstrated in the joint letter from the Presidents of ALPA, APA, SWAPA, and IPA, unions that represent over 80,000 pilots in the industry. If one plans a career in this industry, he will quickly learn that there are no islands -- we rise together, or we fall together.


By the way, the same letter can be viewed as a PDF here (perhaps a little easier to read):

[URL="http://www.skywestalpa.org/documents/USATODAYOpenLetter.pdf"]USA Today - Open Letter to all SkyWest Pilots from the Presidents of Unions Representing over 80,000 Airline Pilots





Getting kicked out of the crewroom was kinda fun, too.





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[TonyC]

Claims of inter-carrier pilot unity are mostly BS. If there were unity, there would be one national seniority list, and we'd all be paid per duty hour.

At first blush, that sounds like a great idea. Once it's flushed out, one sees that like most other strategies, it has some drawbacks. Consider for a moment a scenario where you are being paid the "national" rate for the seat position/equipment you're flying, and your Company falls on hard times. A rebound is around the corner, but in order to make it there, they need to impose temporary pay cuts, or they'll have to close the doors. With the national seniority list concept, you won't have the flexibility to negotiate your own temporary pay cut.

When you find yourself unemployed, you'll want to find work at another company in the same seat/equipment you just left, thus bumping someone at the new company down. Pilots at the successful company you're joining will take a hit because of the incompetence of the management at the company that just closed their doors because you couldn't negotiate pay cuts.

We could go on, but the point is, it's not as simple in reality as it may first seem to be in concept.

Despite all that, I'll still probably vote for it, but don't think for a second that it's because of anything ALPA or the OC said or did. All the pro-ALPA guys are lucky that how I feel doesn't play into my decisions much.

I don't know if I feel lucky, but I'm certainly pleased to see people make decisions with their brains instead of with their emotions. It should be a business decision, no more, no less. Collect the data, analyze the data, and make an informed decision based on the logical analysis. Don't let your mad get in front of your money.





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[Wing_96]

Why not just say, "I don't like unions"? That's what you're saying, right?

No, that is not what I'm saying.

What do you do for a living? Do you work in aviation, or even have any desire to fly for a living?

I do not work in the aviation profession, but yes, I would like to.

What do you do for a living?

 

[kellwolf]

Wing, here's the deal. No one at the major level (and some regional CAs) can AFFORD to quit. If you don't like your job in most fields, you quit and get another job, sometimes in the same field. You negotiate your pay based on experience. That doesn't happen in aviation. You start at the bottom of the seniority list at the lowest pay. So, a 13 year Delta CA can't just say "Screw Delta, I quit" without a MAJOR financial sacrifice. If he's LUCKY, he could get on with another major for about half what he was making as an FO. If he's unlucky, he gets on with a regional as an FO making an even smaller fraction of what he was making. I hear they "Why don't they just quit?" arguement all the time. 90% of the time it is made by people that don't understand how the aviation industry works and haven't taken the time to try to understand it. At least you're asking question and seem to be trying to get a handle on things.

 

[tonyw]

And sometimes when you quit in a different industry you find yourself in a much better situation. I've had eight jobs since I graduated from college in 1990. Each time I've been able to get a little more money from my employer.

That's just not possible in the airline industry. Eight different airlines, going back to the bottom of the comp scale each time? That would be insane.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

What do you do for a living?

I believe you mean "what do you do for a living SIR!"

 

[Wing_96]

I do understand that it's not as easy to quit as in any other profession and that really sucks. I think that is part of the problem when it comes to negotiating with airline mgmt. It seems like mgmt holds all the cards. Everybody wants to fly, and everybody is too finanially committed and can't afford to change jobs. So where does that leave the pilots? It seems like it leaves them right under mgmt's thumb...with no real bargaining power.

I'm not saying, or trying to imply that I don't like unions. That is not what I'm saying. Rather, I am asking, what can pilot's do to have more power when negotiating with the airline mgmt? If the mgmt knows that pilots are not going to quit no matter how bad things get, then what is their incentive to do anything for the pilots? I'm thinking the answer to that is nothing...and I don't like that answer. It is completely disgusting to me what the execs at American did to their pilots and FAs, and I don't want that to happen to anybody, anymore, at any airline.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

What do you do for a living?

I fly airplanes.

 

[Wing_96]

I fly airplanes.

So, what can pilots do to gain more power in dealing with the airline execs?

 

[derg]

So, what can pilots do to gain more power in dealing with the airline execs?

The threat of a strike, not showing up to work and only by having an attrition rate higher than the output of the new hire training department.

Pilots hemming and hawing, while doing their jobs, is music to management's ears. Flight start getting delayed, people start walking off the job or there's a looming strike, they start listening!

 

[E_Dawg]

Let's put pen to paper and write down the minimum for which we are willing to do this job. No more surprise takeaways, i.e. cancellation pay.

If it's about pay, every Skyw pilot should look into the history of negotiations at this company. Deal BH an ace, and the offer was a 1.2% pay raise after a year? How about our latest 1% raise which left the Bro pilots out to dry? If you don't know what I'm talking about, you need to educate yourself on our history before the voting period is over.

Also one MAJOR issue that a surprising number of pilots don't realize is that the status quo needs to be maintained during the drive and after. No retaliation cuts by mgnt after the drive is over but before we get a contract (or if the union is voted down), as some apparently believe will occur. That works both ways and we really should not have been given a 'quality of life application' during the drive...

 

[kellwolf]

I do understand that it's not as easy to quit as in any other profession and that really sucks. I think that is part of the problem when it comes to negotiating with airline mgmt. It seems like mgmt holds all the cards. Everybody wants to fly, and everybody is too finanially committed and can't afford to change jobs. So where does that leave the pilots? It seems like it leaves them right under mgmt's thumb...with no real bargaining power.

I'm not saying, or trying to imply that I don't like unions. That is not what I'm saying. Rather, I am asking, what can pilot's do to have more power when negotiating with the airline mgmt? If the mgmt knows that pilots are not going to quit no matter how bad things get, then what is their incentive to do anything for the pilots? I'm thinking the answer to that is nothing...and I don't like that answer. It is completely disgusting to me what the execs at American did to their pilots and FAs, and I don't want that to happen to anybody, anymore, at any airline.

Short list off the top of my head:

Fly the contract. If scheduling calls you and asks for a "favor," say "No." Don't pick up open time. If there's a lot of open time, that means you're short on pilots. Management will have to hire more people. Eventually, it'll get to the point where they run out of 250 hour guys taken in by the glossy JetU ads, and they'll have to raise pay to retain and attract new talent. Until then, put them in the position of having to cancel flights due to lack of staffing. Don't answer your phone on your days off if it's the company. They're probably calling to junior man you to fly open time no one would pick up. Another hard core (and legal) thing pilots can do is write up MX issues in an outstation if you notice them there instead of doing the "Eh, we'll write it up when we get back." It might suck getting stuck in the outstation for 4-6 hours (or longer), but I image we might be to that point here at Pinnacle if management keeps dragging their feet.

You've hit the nail on the head, though. The current labor environment under the current government along with the RLA really does slant it management's way. Legally, there's not much we CAN do about it since the threat of a strike has been pretty much nipped due to current presidential policy. Can't strike if the NMB won't release you, the NMB won't release since the White House said "No more airline strikes," and two of the three members of the NMB are straight party line voters. Honestly, the BEST thing ALPA can do is get involved on Capitol Hill with the lawmaking process, which is exactly what is being done.