LAX Runways? 24/25?

[Bigey]

So a general question since maybe i'm just not paying attention, or because i just woke up from a nap, but this question popped up in my head.

Why are LAX's runways (24,25) set up backwards of eachother? It's been my understanding that the north complex is 24R/L and the south complex is 25R/L.

How could this be? On a compass or heading indicator, doesnt 24 come before 25? Shouldnt 24 be the south complex?


Ok, i cant get any E-smacks or something for me not realizing something really basic.

 

[Flying Bison]

So a general question since maybe i'm just not paying attention, or because i just woke up from a nap, but this question popped up in my head.

Why are LAX's runways (24,25) set up backwards of eachother? It's been my understanding that the north complex is 24R/L and the south complex is 25R/L.

How could this be? On a compass or heading indicator, doesnt 24 come before 25? Shouldnt 24 be the south complex?


Ok, i cant get any E-smacks or something for me not realizing something really basic.

Rwy numbers are based on the magnetic heading of the runway and are often rounded to the nearest tenth. if you look into it, all 4 runways (westbound) are on a 249 hdg. They have 25 and 24 L/R to alleviate confusion I'm assuming.

 

[MikeD]

So a general question since maybe i'm just not paying attention, or because i just woke up from a nap, but this question popped up in my head.

Why are LAX's runways (24,25) set up backwards of eachother? It's been my understanding that the north complex is 24R/L and the south complex is 25R/L.

How could this be? On a compass or heading indicator, doesnt 24 come before 25? Shouldnt 24 be the south complex?


Ok, i cant get any E-smacks or something for me not realizing something really basic.

They're not backwards. They just are numbered as they are, either because 24 runways are closer to 240, and the 25 runways are closer to 250. Or, they could all be parallel, but it's easier to have two parallel each, on each side of the field. Since you can really only do 3 exact parallel runways at once (IE- 24 L/C/R).

 

[Bigey]

They're not backwards. They just are numbered as they are, either because 24 runways are closer to 240, and the 25 runways are closer to 250. Or, they could all be parallel, but it's easier to have two parallel each, on each side of the field. Since you can really only do 3 exact parallel runways at once (IE- 24 L/C/R).

Right, and i understand that.

But why would you name 24L on the RIGHT side of 25R? Wouldnt it make sense to move in an upward fashion, having 24L/R be closer to the actual magnetic heading?

For instance, LAX 24-25L/R are all on a 249 heading, why have 24R north of 25L?

 

[MikeD]

Right, and i understand that.

But why would you name 24L on the RIGHT side of 25R? Wouldnt it make sense to move in an upward fashion, having 24L/R be closer to the actual magnetic heading?

For instance, LAX 24-25L/R are all on a 249 heading, why have 24R north of 25L?

Good question. Unless, the north runways magnetically favor 240, and the south runways favor 250; when rounded.

 

[Bumblebee]

Right, and i understand that.

But why would you name 24L on the RIGHT side of 25R? Wouldnt it make sense to move in an upward fashion, having 24L/R be closer to the actual magnetic heading?

For instance, LAX 24-25L/R are all on a 249 heading, why have 24R north of 25L?

I don't know the rules, but I do know that the north complex is the 24's and the south complex is the 25's. It would be far more confusing to have 24L and 25L next to each other. If I am on a visual and they ask if I can change to the parallel, then I just slide over a little, rather than to the other complex. Just shooting from the hip

 

[ackeight]

So a general question since maybe i'm just not paying attention, or because i just woke up from a nap, but this question popped up in my head.

Why are LAX's runways (24,25) set up backwards of eachother? It's been my understanding that the north complex is 24R/L and the south complex is 25R/L.

How could this be? On a compass or heading indicator, doesnt 24 come before 25? Shouldnt 24 be the south complex?


Ok, i cant get any E-smacks or something for me not realizing something really basic.

Ok think about this. Wouldn't 7 and 6 be reversed then?????? The runways "converge" going westbound and "diverge" going east. If you flip it it would be the other way around. There is no way around this little cache 22 unless you name runways L, C, CL, CR, R. Talk about confusing

 

[Nick]

Right, and i understand that.

But why would you name 24L on the RIGHT side of 25R? Wouldnt it make sense to move in an upward fashion, having 24L/R be closer to the actual magnetic heading?

For instance, LAX 24-25L/R are all on a 249 heading, why have 24R north of 25L?

They are backwards from one way and correct from the other.

If that's what you meant. Like, looking down final left to right landing east you see 6s and then 7s. The other way you go down as you look left to right which is backwards in my mind. Kind of like DTW: facing southwest you see the 21s and the 22s to the right. Landing the other way you see the 4s on the left and the 3s on the right.

If you mean why don't they put Left Left Right Right, I agree with those that have said that would be far more confusing.

It's easy to reference the pair of runways on the south as "the 25s" or "the 7s" and the ones on the north as their respective numbers.

 

[MikeD]

So a general question since maybe i'm just not paying attention, or because i just woke up from a nap, but this question popped up in my head.

I think you need to go back to sleep.....

 

[3enginejock]

Also sometimes runways are not numbered according to their heading exactly.

Take Miami for example. 08L and 08R are actually on 092 and should be named 9L and 9R. I think at some point they actually were but Miami changed their number for some reason.

 

[Bigey]

I don't know the rules, but I do know that the north complex is the 24's and the south complex is the 25's. It would be far more confusing to have 24L and 25L next to each other. If I am on a visual and they ask if I can change to the parallel, then I just slide over a little, rather than to the other complex. Just shooting from the hip

Yeah but wouldnt it make sense to have it in sequential order? If looking at the compass, it goes 180, then 190, then 200 and etc. Why put runway 24 closer to a 250 heading rather than making it the SOUTH complex where it would SEQUENTIALLY make sense?

Ok think about this. Wouldn't 7 and 6 be reversed then?????? The runways "converge" going westbound and "diverge" going east. If you flip it it would be the other way around. There is no way around this little cache 22 unless you name runways L, C, CL, CR, R. Talk about confusing

But i understand this, but why have 24L/R on the NORTH of Runway 25L/R.
Take out a compass or a heading indicator and visualize what i'm saying, they're putting runway 25 closer to the heading of 249 than they are runway 24. So the order it seems is this (starting from south) 180, 190, 200, 210, 220, 230, 250, 240, 260.

They are backwards from one way and correct from the other.

If that's what you meant. Like, looking down final left to right landing east you see 6s and then 7s. The other way you go down as you look left to right which is backwards in my mind. Kind of like DTW: facing southwest you see the 21s and the 22s to the right. Landing the other way you see the 4s on the left and the 3s on the right.

If you mean why don't they put Left Left Right Right, I agree with those that have said that would be far more confusing.

It's easy to reference the pair of runways on the south as "the 25s" or "the 7s" and the ones on the north as their respective numbers.

Referencing the south complex, oh i dont know, maybe numbers closer to south would make sense though, no? Like the south complex being 24, and the north being 25?

 

[OhioStatePilot]

Honestly, it doesn't matter which complex is the 24 and which is the 25, they both generally make the same amount of sense. Remember it's 6/24 and 7/25 so either way you're going to have a pair of runway numbers that don't seem to be on the "right" side of the airport.

At the same point in time, consider the fact that the runway numbers are configured based upon their angle of orientation, not lines of latitude. If you slide either runway complex 100 feet or 100 miles north or south, the compass heading is still the same and therefore they maintain the same identifiers.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Why are LAX's runways (24,25) set up backwards of eachother? It's been my understanding that the north complex is 24R/L and the south complex is 25R/L.

How could this be? On a compass or heading indicator, doesnt 24 come before 25? Shouldnt 24 be the south complex?

Same reason ATL's 26L/R is the north complex. I think you can chalk this one up to the "just because" category.

 

[SteveC]

Referencing the south complex, oh i dont know, maybe numbers closer to south would make sense though, no? Like the south complex being 24, and the north being 25?

Like said by others, what if we think about ruwnay complexes 06 and 07? Shouldn't 06 be the further north pair by your reasoning? 60 degrees is closer to north than 70.

 

[FM_Weasel]

Referencing the south complex, oh i dont know, maybe numbers closer to south would make sense though, no? Like the south complex being 24, and the north being 25?

You're putting too much thought into this. 6L/R and 7L/R are aligned in the manner that you're so devoutly arguing. Therefore, the opposite ends (which share the same concrete surface as their inverse counterparts) cannot be aligned in the same way. If they were to change the numbering scheme to have 24/25 in sequential order, then 6/7 would be out of order.

Also, as some have mentioned, this is done to avoid confusion. Since you can only have three like parallels (Left, Right, Center), airports with more than three will take the extra parallels and round to the next number to differentiate from the first two or three. Clearly, LAX chose to split them down the middle to avoid having a Center runway.

Also, you'll find that some runways don't really correspond with their magnetic heading. This can be a result of the shift in magnetic variation over long periods of time. As the change occurs, the airport may not elect to repaint the runways.

 

[Bigey]

You're putting too much thought into this. 6L/R and 7L/R are aligned in the manner that you're so devoutly arguing. Therefore, the opposite ends (which share the same concrete surface as their inverse counterparts) cannot be aligned in the same way. If they were to change the numbering scheme to have 24/25 in sequential order, then 6/7 would be out of order.

Also, as some have mentioned, this is done to avoid confusion. Since you can only have three like parallels (Left, Right, Center), airports with more than three will take the extra parallels and round to the next number to differentiate from the first two or three. Clearly, LAX chose to split them down the middle to avoid having a Center runway.

Also, you'll find that some runways don't really correspond with their magnetic heading. This can be a result of the shift in magnetic variation over long periods of time. As the change occurs, the airport may not elect to repaint the runways.

Ahhh i see now. I wasnt thinking about the runways in backwards order (6/7). So then just wanting to make sure i understand it, if you switch it to having 24 be the south complex, and 25 the north, when you switch the runways and view the runways from their respective opposite angle they would then be out of whack. Where 6/7 wouldnt make sense yet again?


See, sleep is very precious thing!:crazy:

 

[Nick]

Referencing the south complex, oh i dont know, maybe numbers closer to south would make sense though, no? Like the south complex being 24, and the north being 25?

SteveC said again what I said above. One pair is always going to seem like they are flipped around the wrong way. ATL, DTW, LAX, DEN, PHL, and so on.

They are backwards from one way and correct from the other.

If that's what you meant. Like, looking down final left to right landing east you see 6s and then 7s. The other way you go down as you look left to right which is backwards in my mind. Kind of like DTW: facing southwest you see the 21s and the 22s to the right. Landing the other way you see the 4s on the left and the 3s on the right.

Go get some compensatory rest!