Latest Victims of "War" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

tonyw

tonyw

Well-Known Member
Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

Once again, our Department of Homeland (in)Security is missing the mark. No terrorists used crop dusters on September 11, no evidence is out there about terrorists planning to use them, yet they'll interrogate people who are doing a vital job.

Lovely.
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Crop Dusters Interviewed by FBI

Maybe that's what happened to agcatman -- Homeland (in)Security got him.
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Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

Do your research Tony.


Atta looks at crop dusters
Just one of many, many links with criteria of Atta, cropduster.

It's foolish to think that since they've not done it they aren't capable of planning it. 9-11 should have taught us that.
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

I guess you'd be okay with inspecting every single engine Cessna, then? After all, Atta and the rest of his ilk learned to fly in those. And we better question every single person who flies one of those.

And while we're at it, we better search every single person who gets on a train with a backpack. After all, in Madrid, they used those to blow up trains.

On top of that, when someone goes to the Ryder truck rental, we better check them out thoroughly. McVeigh rented one of those and blew it up.

And maybe we should check out all the contractors who buy nails. The guy who detonated the bomb at the Atlanta Olympics stuffed those in the bomb.

If those things don't make sense, then why does questioning crop dusters make sense? This is nothing but another violation of our civil liberties and does nothing to prevent a terrorist attack.

You think that a guy who's planning a terrorist attack with a crop duster is going to say, why, yes, Mr. FBI guy, I do plan to use my crop duster to drop chemicals on a major American city?
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

Tony, You know I believe in civil liberties more than most on here. But from reading the article, it didn't seem as if the FBI suspected any of our current pilots but were questioning them to find out if anything suspicious has been happening. The point that sticks out after reading it was the FBI trying to find out if any foreigners had been asking questions about the planes or had tried to purchase one. Looking for things out of the normal.

I didn't get the sense that ag pilots were being detained without lawyers but were simply being asked to provide info. Maybe I am wrong. I have only read the link you gave but that was how it seemed to me.
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

From your post
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"no evidence is out there about terrorists planning to use them"
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quote from the link you provided:
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"Mohamed Atta, who piloted one of the planes that struck the World Trade Center, and some associates repeatedly visited a fertilizer company in Belle Glade, Fla., to ask questions about crop dusters, investigators have said. Authorities also found information about crop dusters and dispersal of chemicals on the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged in the United States in connection with the Sept. 11 attacks."
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I don't understand?
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

I find all of those options to be reasonable. Unless of course you really don't want to stop terrorism?
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

[ QUOTE ]
I find all of those options to be reasonable. Unless of course you really don't want to stop terrorism?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if I go down to the Home Depot and pick up a couple of boxes of nails, you think the FBI should ask me questions?

You think I should be interrogated if I'm renting a U-Haul to help a friend move?

You really think that's reasonable?
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Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

Tony's got some good points, and you other guys have some good points. I'm falling somewhere in the middle here. Do I think the FBI should be questioning people to find out if anything suspicious is going on? Hell yeah. Question is, will they DO anything about it, or will they just send a report to a higher up that spills coffee on it and throws it away?

Bottom line is that we need to decide where security stops and personal liberty starts. This country was founded on freedom, and every day I wake to see one more gone in the name of the "war on terra (Bush pronunciation)." If you feel those scenarios that Tony posted are fair, why don't we all get bar codes tatooed on us to prove we aren't terrorists, then TSA can just scan us. If we keep going the way we are, the terrorists will win without even doing anything else. They're whole goal was to have us living in fear, and guess what. It worked. We're afraid of our own shadow and the guy living down the street. I don't like it, and I can't live like that.
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

That depends tony, whatt are you going to do with those nails and a rental truck? Somebody needs to be minding the store. Of course there's no way they can do that, but a random check from time to time takes options away from the bad guys. Chances are you'd never even know they checked you out.

After the Oklahoma City bombing, in fact the day after, I got visited by the FBI. Why, because I'd bought A rifle (Springfield M1A1) and Ammo (lots of ammo) from a major payer in the the Michigan Militia who just happened to own the local Gun shop. Was I all butt hurt over it, NO, because I did nothing wrong and had nothing to hide. During times of National Emergency some exceptions must be made. I can live with that.
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

[ QUOTE ]
Internal Security and Civil Liberties:
The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter threats to domestic security. Because oversight becomes more difficult with the proliferation and growth of bureaucracies, we oppose the establishment of a new cabinet level Department of Homeland Security.

We call for the repeal of the Patriot Act of 2001, the Counter-terrorism Act of 1996, and all other legislation that authorizes secret evidence, holding people without charge, treating material witnesses like convicted criminals, engaging in search and seizure without Constitutionally issued and executed warrants, and other violations of individual rights under the color of national security.

We support the abolition of the subpoena power as used by Congressional committees against individuals or firms. We oppose any efforts to revive the House Internal Security Committee or its predecessor the House Un-American Activities Committee, and call for the destruction of its files on private individuals and groups. We also call for the abolition of the Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security.

[/ QUOTE ]
Any guesses where that's from?
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Click here.


[ QUOTE ]
Protection of Privacy:
The individual's right to privacy, property, and right to speak or not to speak should not be infringed by the government. The government should not use electronic or other means of covert surveillance of an individual's actions or private property without the consent of the owner or occupant. Correspondence, bank and other financial transactions and records, doctors' and lawyers' communications, employment records, and the like should not be open to review by government without the consent of all parties involved in those actions.

We support the protections provided by the Fourth Amendment and oppose any government use of search warrants to examine or seize materials belonging to innocent third parties. We also oppose police roadblocks aimed at randomly, and without probable cause, testing drivers for intoxication and police practices to stop mass transit vehicles and search passengers without probable cause.

So long as the National Census and all federal, state, and other government agencies' compilations of data on an individual continue to exist, they should be conducted only with the consent of the persons from whom the data is sought.

[/ QUOTE ]

More here.
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Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

So what, the FBI interviewed some crop dusters. Call me up an interview me, I dont care. If they were able to lend imformation that they had been approached by Raqqizezqizac Racckifiel el Aseen who was interested in flying a crop duster, then I think the FBI might be able to use that kind of information.
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

Ummm......O.K.,
yes, yes, I see you shooter,
nice to see you volunteering.......again.
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anyone else? anyone?......DTA?
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Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

I know, I can't support everthing the party stands for. But, by and large I like the philosophy
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Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

[ QUOTE ]
That depends tony, whatt are you going to do with those nails and a rental truck? Somebody needs to be minding the store. Of course there's no way they can do that, but a random check from time to time takes options away from the bad guys. Chances are you'd never even know they checked you out.

[/ QUOTE ]

What am I going to do with those nails? I'm going to use them to hang drywall. Or build something. In any case, it's none of the government's business what I'm doing with them. Same thing with the truck. Maybe I'm loading a few kegs into there for a weekend party. Or helping a friend move. But it's none of the government's business.

If the FBI has probable cause, then get a warrant, and ask away. If they don't, then I think that there's something called the Constitution which has a clause in there about unreasonable search and seizure.

And if they're doing it without us knowing about it, it is even more scary. That's the kind of thing that I'd expect in a police state, not the land of the free.
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

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On top of that, when someone goes to the Ryder truck rental, we better check them out thoroughly. McVeigh rented one of those and blew it up.



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You know, funny thing. I rented a Ryder/Penske yellow truck the other week to help a guy drop off some stuff to his downtown Tucson (middle of downtown) loft he lives in. Wasn't too busy, but I couldn't find parking, so I pulled down the road a bit until I could squeeze into a curbside area about 1/4 block from the county courthouse. Left the truck with it's hazards on, just so I could run across the street (not more than 200 feet away) to a bagel shop to get some more quarters for the parking meter.

I swear, within minutes, cops began coming out of the woodwork like cockroaches. Luckily, my ID saved me and the truck was empty, but it could've been interesting.
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

[ QUOTE ]

I swear, within minutes, cops began coming out of the woodwork like cockroaches. Luckily, my ID saved me and the truck was empty, but it could've been interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]


So Mike, did you feel like your rights were violated, or that the Cops were just doing there job?
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

The cops were cool about it, especially after I IDd myself. The surprise came from think back pre OK city and 9/11, no one would've taken even a double take.
 
Re: Latest Victims of \"War\" on Terrorism: Crop Dusters

What's the saying... "Those who sacrifice Liberty for Safety deserve neither?"

Or, my favorite, "Those who sacrifice doughnuts for Atkins should give them to me."

Hm.

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Plus, what's the worst that could happen? Free trip to Cuba?
 
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