LA Fire/Aerial Firefighting

Kingairer

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
Im ignorant on this, and curious what those who have done or might have knowledge in the area... So we see these runaway fires every year, mostly during summer, and I get it then that resources are spread thin. But it seems like this time of year, there would be few places that have wildfires in North America right now. How is it we cant get adequate aerial resources when this things spark up, and not when its too late? Is it such a black swan event that something of this scale happens that it isnt feasible to have a quick reaction aerial team ready to go? Is it to difficult to fly the DC10 747 style bombers in neighborhoods? It just seems we would have more a aerial fire department that could be sent to anywhere in the country in a few hours.
 
Yup. Down season for fires….which is seemingly becoming more and more a thing of the past, the idea of fires being seasonal….means aircraft down time. Some aircraft are available, however weather/winds have been a large part of the low amount of air support seen overhead of some of these LA fires. The county and state requested federal support, which is facing the same problems; but truly, California state and its associated counties have one of the largest fleets of fixed and rotary wing firefighting assets. They’re just hindered over some of the fires.
 
I think it's all about contracts and expectations. Neptune out of KMSO showed a BA146 on that fire a week ago but also happen to know all their other planes are in MSO in the hangar. You could call it heavy maintenance but I'm pretty sure if contracts existed to keep these planes going they would figure out a way. Perhaps contracts will become more year round and aircraft and staffing needs will be met in the future. I'd see what Dale has to say. Personally, I'm paying for my own requal in a 757 sim in a month out of MIA. Partly for fun and partly in hopes that the 757 tanker program gets approved by the FAA. I have two seasons of air attack and 23 years on the 757. Only thing that would bring me out of retirement at age 64 is being a tanker pilot. So we'll see. I did post on here the Neptune has signed a contract to convert A319's to replace the 146's. If enough money is on the table the tanker fleets will be expanded, staffed, and upgraded.
 
MikeD said:
Yup. Down season for fires….which is seemingly becoming more and more a thing of the past, the idea of fires being seasonal….means aircraft down time. Some aircraft are available, however weather/winds have been a large part of the low amount of air support seen overhead of some of these LA fires. The county and state requested federal support, which is facing the same problems; but truly, California state and its associated counties have one of the largest fleets of fixed and rotary wing firefighting assets. They’re just hindered over some of the fires.
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There's been a fairly strong aviation firefighting contingent in spite of and considering the winds. I had 80mph winds at my house and I wasn't anywhere near a wildfire. If you know someone with the testicular fortitude to drop into a canyon with those sorts of winds forward their resume to CalFire and let them figure out whether or not they're insane.
 
DE727UPS said:
I think it's all about contracts and expectations. Neptune out of KMSO showed a BA146 on that fire a week ago but also happen to know all their other planes are in MSO in the hangar. You could call it heavy maintenance but I'm pretty sure if contracts existed to keep these planes going they would figure out a way. Perhaps contracts will become more year round and aircraft and staffing needs will be met in the future. I'd see what Dale has to say. Personally, I'm paying for my own requal in a 757 sim in a month out of MIA. Partly for fun and partly in hopes that the 757 tanker program gets approved by the FAA. I have two seasons of air attack and 23 years on the 757. Only thing that would bring me out of retirement at age 64 is being a tanker pilot. So we'll see. I did post on here the Neptune has signed a contract to convert A319's to replace the 146's. If enough money is on the table the tanker fleets will be expanded, staffed, and upgraded.
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Also depends the type of contract. Is it Exclusive Use? Year Around? Or is it Call When Needed, which doesn’t necessarily guarantee and instant response.
 
BobDDuck said:
A lot of the fleet is in Australia for their fire "season".
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For the contractors, indeed. In where the work is. The state, county and (in the case of LA) city assets should still be around, though what their ready status is, I don’t know.

knot4u said:
There's been a fairly strong aviation firefighting contingent in spite of and considering the winds. I had 80mph winds at my house and I wasn't anywhere near a wildfire. If you know someone with the testicular fortitude to drop into a canyon with those sorts of winds forward their resume to CalFire and let them figure out whether or not they're insane.
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Be pretty challenging being in a helo with a heavy fixed tank onboard and trying maneuver in those winds and downdrafts. Forget sling loading a bucket. Fixed wing, same thing for those type areas. But indeed some have been operating here and there, which is surprising to see.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
Some dweeb with a drone hit one of the two Canadian CL415s taking it out of the fight with a hole punched in the leading edge of the wing. The FAA really needs to crack down on this • before someone gets killed.
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Finally a midair happened with a drone. Just lucky it wasn’t an aircraft loss and fatal. If the operator is found, fry him.

It’s not just this plane taken out of the fight. Any unidentified airborne drone activity results in all air operations being shut down for safety.
 
MikeD said:
Finally a midair happened with a drone. Just lucky it wasn’t an aircraft loss and fatal. If the operator is found, fry him.

It’s not just this plane taken out of the fight. Any unidentified airborne drone activity results in all air operations being shut down for safety.
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This is hardly the first. A NJ National Guard Blackhawk took a drone through the blades about 10 years ago over the Hudson River. There's been a bunch of GA incidents, and there is video floating around of a United (I think?) 737 taking a "bird" (that happens to have strobing red and green lights on it as it sails into the engine).
 
BobDDuck said:
This is hardly the first. A NJ National Guard Blackhawk took a drone through the blades about 10 years ago over the Hudson River. There's been a bunch of GA incidents, and there is video floating around of a United (I think?) 737 taking a "bird" (that happens to have strobing red and green lights on it as it sails into the engine).
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Oh I was meaning with a firefighting aircraft. There have been numerous drones spotted around fires that have resulted in shutting down air ops on the fire. I believe this is the first one that hit one of these aircraft. With an actual hit now, I can see air ops getting somewhat risk averse. Last thing they need is an aircraft go down.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
Some dweeb with a drone hit one of the two Canadian CL415s taking it out of the fight with a hole punched in the leading edge of the wing. The FAA really needs to crack down on this • before someone gets killed.
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Hopefully they find the drone remnants and at least make the owners life miserable, even if it's new ground trying to prove he was the operator at the time. But maybe location of their cell phone, and other "data" might make enough to charge.
 
Anyone else feeling disastered-out this year? Between driving past our old St. Pete house and seeing the kitchen I remodeled out on the curb, having our western NC mountain trips cancelled and seeing the devastation peopled faced there, to the images from LA ... it's been a rough several months for sure.
 
invadertim said:
Damned drones, you knew this was going to be an issue sooner or later. No one hurt thankfully, but a water-bomber is out of action for a while.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/10/us/super-scooper-drone-collision-la-fire-canada-hnk-intl/index.html
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It’s not just drones, it’s damned “disaster tourists.”

People need to get F’d with this selfish need to show them exploring, stupidity. And worse when they do something that puts them and others in danger they act like it’s justified they were doing their dumb crap in the first place.


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invadertim said:
Damned drones, you knew this was going to be an issue sooner or later. No one hurt thankfully, but a water-bomber is out of action for a while.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/10/us/super-scooper-drone-collision-la-fire-canada-hnk-intl/index.html
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Indeed, you KNEW it was going to happen, it is all but assumed there will be incursions.
That is what makes it confusing, is that at the press conference 10 minutes ago,
some dude (I forgot his function) speaks to the scooper / drone strike, admonishes people that it is a federal offence to fly them in the FTA
And then goes on to say how they will be deploying defensive and tracking technology to abate, identify and track ownership future incursions.

OK official dude,....Any info on why this was not ALREADY done by now??
It was ABSOULUTELY foreseeable.
 
mightynimbus said:
Indeed, you KNEW it was going to happen, it is all but assumed there will be incursions.
That is what makes it confusing, is that at the press conference 10 minutes ago,
some dude (I forgot his function) speaks to the scooper / drone strike, admonishes people that it is a federal offence to fly them in the FTA
And then goes on to say how they will be deploying defensive and tracking technology to abate, identify and track ownership future incursions.

OK official dude,....Any info on why this was not ALREADY done by now??
It was ABSOULUTELY foreseeable.
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Dude…We’re trying to figure out how to solve the drone/manned aircraft airspace problem in the military with just the ones we know are there… You’ve got 1000 dollar off the shelf FPV drones that can travel over the horizon with 3 day shipping from Amazon. This problem is nowhere near being solved and there is no magic system to deploy that’s going to fix it. The frontlines of Ukraine would look a lot different if there was.

This was bluster flexing for the press. Best way they get people is still gonna be spotting them and putting hands on them on the ground.


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Lawman said:
Dude…We’re trying to figure out how to solve the drone/manned aircraft airspace problem in the military with just the ones we know are there… You’ve got 1000 dollar off the shelf FPV drones that can travel over the horizon with 3 day shipping from Amazon. This problem is nowhere near being solved and there is no magic system to deploy that’s going to fix it. The frontlines of Ukraine would look a lot different if there was.

This was bluster flexing for the press. Best way they get people is still gonna be spotting them and putting hands on them on the ground.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Understood, and you are right,
I was reacting in real time as I rolled my eyes as yet another shortcoming was mentioned.
I should have taken a lap and applied my "CYA" filter to what I was hearing.
 
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