KPHX

MikeD

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Now, I'm from PHX and I remember when that airport had a Terminal 1 that Hughes Air West was flying out of, no Terminal 4, only two runways, and the AZ Air National Guard was flying KC-97s. I flew out of there for my initial PPL in 1985 and was based there for my second cargo job 10 years later.

In that time, the airfield has expanded a lot, namely getting a thrid runway built. With nothing to do as duty officer today, I was idly paging through the FLIP IAP book and looked at the airfield diagram of KPHX to see where some of the new stuff is located, and I noticed that the magnetic heading for all three runways is 077.7/257.7 degrees.

My question is, why didn't the south runway retain it's "8-26" designation [when there was only 8L/R - 26L/R] and when the third runway was added, have it also become 8-26; so you have a 8 L/C/R - 26 L/C/R; as opposed to having it the way it is now with the north runway still being 8-26, and the south runway being 7L/R - 25L/R?
 
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Now, I'm from PHX and I remember when that airport had a Terminal 1 that Hughes Air West was flying out of, no Terminal 4, only two runways, and the AZ Air National Guard was flying KC-97s. I flew out of there for my initial PPL in 1985 and was based there for my second cargo job 10 years later.

In that time, the airfield has expanded a lot, namely getting a thrid runway built. With nothing to do as duty officer today, I was idly paging through the FLIP IAP book and looked at the airfield diagram of KPHX to see where some of the new stuff is located, and I noticed that the magnetic heading for all three runways is 077.7/257.7 degrees.

My question is, why didn't the south runway retain it's "8-26" designation and when the third runway was added, have it also become 8-26; so you have a 8 L/C/R - 26 L/C/R; as opposed to having it the way it is now with the north runway still being 8-26, and the south runway being 7L/R - 26L/R?

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You are muccccch older than I guessed.

But 7-26 is a messed up way to label runways. Maybe the budget ran out before they could change the 6s to 5s. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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Now, I'm from PHX and I remember when that airport had a Terminal 1 that Hughes Air West was flying out of, no Terminal 4, only two runways, and the AZ Air National Guard was flying KC-97s. I flew out of there for my initial PPL in 1985 and was based there for my second cargo job 10 years later.

In that time, the airfield has expanded a lot, namely getting a thrid runway built. With nothing to do as duty officer today, I was idly paging through the FLIP IAP book and looked at the airfield diagram of KPHX to see where some of the new stuff is located, and I noticed that the magnetic heading for all three runways is 077.7/257.7 degrees.

My question is, why didn't the south runway retain it's "8-26" designation and when the third runway was added, have it also become 8-26; so you have a 8 L/C/R - 26 L/C/R; as opposed to having it the way it is now with the north runway still being 8-26, and the south runway being 7L/R - 26L/R?

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You are muccccch older than I guessed.

But 7-26 is a messed up way to label runways. Maybe the budget ran out before they could change the 6s to 5s. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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LOL. Typo on my part. Now corrected! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Thx for the catch! Last sentence is "....7L/R - 25L/R"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Might be just my perception, but I've noticed lately that the FAA seems to be distancing itself from the practice of having L/C/R runways and the potential for confusion they offer. Take a look at KDEN's airport diagram.
 
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Might be just my perception, but I've noticed lately that the FAA seems to be distancing itself from the practice of having L/C/R runways and the potential for confusion they offer. Take a look at KDEN's airport diagram.

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Have noticed that too. And I think that may be what it is. But IMO there's really no more confusion than there being L/R runways. I mean, if a pilot can't manage a L/C/R runway combo, they shouldn't be holding a license. So I'm not sure why the FAA would do this, but I do agree that it is the way they seem to be going.

Only airports off the top of my head I can think of with L/C/R runways is:

KIWA
KDFW
KEND
KPIT
KDLF
KPCA (4 parallel runways)
 
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Have noticed that too. And I think that may be what it is. But IMO there's really no more confusion than there being L/R runways. I mean, if a pilot can't manage a L/C/R runway combo, they shouldn't be holding a license. So I'm not sure why the FAA would do this, but I do agree that it is the way they seem to be going.

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Seems to me its more clear to have the runways marked L/C/R than to give them slightly different numbers. "So, is Rwy 26 to the left or right of Rwy 27??"

MF
 
We'll find out soon enough, if the ORD stuff gets done. There will be six, count 'em, six parallel runways. What do you do then?
 
DFW has 18R, 18L, 17L, 17C, 17R...

Wait, durr, that's only 5.. but you can still get fairly creative!
 
LOL.

I think the folks in Chicago decided to show the folks down in Texas that it is not true that everything is bigger in Texas. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Seems to me its more clear to have the runways marked L/C/R than to give them slightly different numbers. "So, is Rwy 26 to the left or right of Rwy 27??"

MF

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I'd have to disagree. Especially where you have parallel approaches I'd like to see both approach runways have different numbers, ala ATL. It just seems to me that there is less chance of confusing "eight left" and "nine right" than "eight left" and "eight right" strictly from a radio communications standpoint.
 
I like the 26 L/R, 27 L/R thing too.

Easy to remember and a little harder to screw up.

It's the 'bottoms are usually bigger in the south' rule of thumb.

27 is 'bigger' than 26 and on the 'bottom' (south part of the airport).

Inboard runways are departure and the Outboard runways are arrival!
 
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Only airports off the top of my head I can think of with L/C/R runways is:

KIWA
KDFW
KEND
KPIT
KDLF
KPCA (4 parallel runways)

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You can add MEM to that list. 18L/C/R and a 9/27 crossing runway. They tend to use all four at once, too. Especially at night when FedEx pretty much owns the place.
 
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Only airports off the top of my head I can think of with L/C/R runways is:

KIWA
KDFW
KEND
KPIT
KDLF
KPCA (4 parallel runways)

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You can add MEM to that list. 18L/C/R and a 9/27 crossing runway. They tend to use all four at once, too. Especially at night when FedEx pretty much owns the place.

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Add BNA. 2L/C/R, with 13/31 crossing.
 
PHX has definately grown in the past couple of years. There currently doing some kind of construction.

I had heard that they were putting in a new control tower. I drive past Sky Harbor everyday for work on SR143 and I have seen no real evidence of new contruction.

KPHX looks kinda sandwiched in and looks like it's growth is severely limited as a direct result. I heard that they might add another north parallel runways in the distant future. Not sure how though.

Lastly DFW is just a huge freaking monster. I think that it is the biggest airport in the country land wise. I have an atlas of and they have airports in a grey color and DFW is the largest that I have seen when flipping thru major cities.

I think that in DFW's future plans there going to add a third west runway. Making it 18L/18C/18R much like the east side of the field.


Matthew
 
I had an ATC class tought by a PHX tower controller last semester and a student asked the same question. The reason, like most things in the world, had to do with money. Because the runway headings eventually "will" intersect in space, control operations become more complex and the FAA moves PHX up a notch on its funding scale. Obviously the runways are parallel and the FAA knows this. Seems like an awful lot of work to get around their own system but eh, thats government.
 
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Lastly DFW is just a huge freaking monster. I think that it is the biggest airport in the country land wise. I have an atlas of and they have airports in a grey color and DFW is the largest that I have seen when flipping thru major cities.



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Spans three counties!
 
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The Airport in Saudi Arabia (I would guess Ryad), is the largest airport by land mass in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]Maybe Jeddah, because of the Haj?
 
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