Keeping track

say_speed

say_speed

New Member
Someone had an excellent idea: why don't CFIs offer their students a free BFR? It is a way to keep track of your past students performance, as well as how you have instructed them, and also discover a trend that you wouldn't have seen otherwise.
I think I will try the 1st BFR free, and the subsequent 1/2 price. Same with ICC.
Any thoughts?
 
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why don't CFIs offer their students a free BFR?

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Sounds like a great idea - but who's going to pay for the airplane?
 
Good idea, but how long are you planning on instructing? And for each of your students? Some of mine are in the military and in Japan, Mayport, FL, Norfolk, VA, etc. I will probably keep instructing on the side a little but once I am done instructing, I would like to pick and choose who I teach and how much I do. Right now, it's instructing for the hours and doing my best while I'm doing it, but not sure I want students trying to kill me for th rest of my life.
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My hat's off to the lifelong CFI...not a job for me forever (at least not at this pace).
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most CFI's work for a year or two max, from my understanding, then move on...it's the nature of the beast (sad but true).
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Yup, excellent idea.

As if CFI's don't already get paid crappy enough, you introduce the idea of giving free instruction. Classic. If someone was doing that on the field when I was instructing, I'd have walked up and kicked them square in the nuts.
 
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Someone had an excellent idea: why don't CFIs offer their students a free BFR?

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Was this 'someone' a flight student perhaps???
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I'd have walked up and kicked them square in the nuts.

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And I'd be right behind you to hit them in the face with a folding chair!
 
I think it's not a bad idea....would it be any different from giving intro flights for little or nothing?

Takes money to make money....
 
I don't give intro flights for little or nothing. That's my boss' cost to eat; not mine. I still get the same rate.
 
I have a good friend who I fly with quite frequently. We are pretty much neck and neck in our training.

He mentioned to me a couple of months ago that after he earned his CFI, he was "just going to start instructing for free to build the time quicker."

I told him "Thanks, buddy!".

Him: For what?

Me: For taking food out of my mouth.

Him: What do you mean?

Me: You don't see it? Look, you and I will have the same ratings after spending pretty much the same amount of money. I plan on charging for my time because I've earned the right to MAKE money at that point, but you're just going to undercut me for the sake of hours? That cheapens you AND the industry and is an insult to me and all other CFI's.

Him: Oh. I didn't see it that way.




Obviously.
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Great point, Stan....I'm with you 100%.

I do, however, like the idea of some incentive to fly with me. If I offer you an incentive (let's be real, we're talking about an hour of flight time - $20-$40 in most cases) to get a rating completely with me. You do your Private with me, and I give you a BFR 2 years later. Much like a mail-in rebate, most people aren't even going to take me up on the offer. Put some restrictions - the BFR has to be done within 24 months of your checkride. The offer is only good if you did all of your private training with me. The offer is only valid if you NEED a BFR (meaning that if you just got your IR 2 months ago, but you think this is a good way to scam an hour of free dual, it doesn't work). Suddenly, it's not looking so bad.

I would compare this to airlines and their frequent flier programs. You be faithful to us, and we'll take care of you.

Any feedback?
 
a CFI with a good reputation and who is a decent person in the cockpit and beyond does not need to offer BFR "coupons".

If a CFI does his job right, then his/her former students will desire to fly with them again. PERIOD.

Anyone I train.. I want them to WANT to come back to choose me again, for the next lesson and also beyond. Its more rewarding to work hard to be a really valued CFI than it is to invent a scheme of saving them a few bucks down the road, just to log... uh 1 hr??? in the logbook.
 
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a CFI with a good reputation and who is a decent person in the cockpit and beyond does not need to offer BFR "coupons".


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And an airline that takes care of it's passengers and provides a great trip doesn't need a frequent flyer plan. By this point, let's be realistic. We're talking about marketing. I'm trying to undercut the guy across the street without lowering my wages.

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If a CFI does his job right, then his/her former students will desire to fly with them again. PERIOD.

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Not always. I've made decisions like this based solely on the dollar. I've changed FBO's over $5 per hour on the aircraft. What works for some people might not work for others...

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Anyone I train.. I want them to WANT to come back to choose me again, for the next lesson and also beyond. Its more rewarding to work hard to be a really valued CFI than it is to invent a scheme of saving them a few bucks down the road, just to log... uh 1 hr??? in the logbook.

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Understood. I don't think anyone is saying that you shold offer sub-standard instruction. Let's pretend for a minute that all of the CFI's at all of the flight schools on a field are equal. Now, each CFI has to have a way to attract business. If I offer you something like a free BFR two years down the road, that might be reason enough!!!

Nothing personal - it's all business!!
 
While it is true that some people use the price as the determining factor in where to go, most do not, at least in regards to flight instruction, especially when you consider advanced ratings.

Reputation is huge in this business. Word of mouth is the most powerful advertising method. If you have an excellent reputation, you will not need a gimmick like free instruction to lure business (and cause people to kick you in the nuts and hit you in the face with a folding chair). Sure you may lose one or two people because of the price, but then they weren't concerned with finding the best instruction anyway.

If you provide free flight instruction, word gets around that you're whoring yourself and the benifit is not as great as initially thought. The students you get are the ones who aren't looking for quality instruction, they're looking for a cut-rate deal.

Primary instruction is the only exception. Many people first learning to fly DO factor cost as a large factor, but only because they do not know anything about it. They don't know what it involves, or the huge variance in instruction quality. On the other hand, they won't know what a BFR is either, and so "free BFR" may or may not make any difference at all. Even so, when said new student-to-be hears of the instructor who is whoring him/herself, many will look elsewhere.

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A CFI with a good reputation and who is a decent person in the cockpit and beyond does not need to offer BFR "coupons".

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Truer words are a rare find indeed.

Just an FYI:
Currently, all of my advanced rating students, and one of my primary students (8, plus another 2 that I take when their instructor isn't available) came to me from reputation/word-of-mouth. I did no advertising aside from my name being on the schedule and on the website for the flying club I'm with.
 
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Even so, when said new student-to-be hears of the instructor who is whoring him/herself, many will look elsewhere.

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I agree 100%. Really, I do. But is a free BFR whoring yourself?

What about flat-rate pricing? Is that whoring yourself?

What if you find a way to give a quality product cheaper than the next guy - does that make you a [expletive deleted]?

When I was in the Marine Corps, I knew this who....

my bad, back to the discussion...
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Free BFR = free instruction = yes.

Flat-rate Pricing: Not exactly sure what you mean by this, do you mean "Private certificate for X dollars"? If so, then no, in most cases not. By no means is it free instruction, and presumably the CFI has the program incredibly structured so as to maximize the hourly rate it translates to. If not, then it is a poor business plan, and other CFIs will know it (which leads to a sort of "blacklist" if you will).

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What if you find a way to give a quality product cheaper than the next guy

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It depends on how the cheaper product is created. Done by cutting overhead costs, costs of doing business, etc., by all means go for it. Done by cutting your own income (i.e. I now make $10/hr instead of $15/hr just to make it cheaper for students), bad. Again, other CFIs will find out how the cheaper price is created, it is inevitable. Secrets are not kept at an airport.

Basically, I think it boils down to is the CFI getting compensated his/her work? If yes, no problem, if no, watch out for the nut kickers and folding chair wielders.
 
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What if you find a way to give a quality product cheaper than the next guy

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It depends on how the cheaper product is created. Done by cutting overhead costs, costs of doing business, etc., by all means go for it. Done by cutting your own income (i.e. I now make $10/hr instead of $15/hr just to make it cheaper for students), bad. Again, other CFIs will find out how the cheaper price is created, it is inevitable. Secrets are not kept at an airport.

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We may be splitting hairs here!!

So, you're saying that if I can offer a cheaper trainng package by cutting my rates by 10%, I'm cutting my own income. OK, let's go with that.

Now let's say I'm a freelancer, and I keep my rates the same, but find a cheaper way to negotiate my aircraft rental rates. Or, let's say I own my own aircraft and charge for aircraft rental at cost. Would I still kicked kicked and chaired??

I agree that flight instructors should be paid for their time. I think that we should be compensated well, and that our time is worth every dime. However, I think that it's important that flight instructors learn to be effective business operators. Without that, you're going to lose business.

As a freelance instructor (presently), I've negotiated a way to make everybody happy. With access to an aircraft that I've negotiated at a very good rate, I can undercut anybody in the region by at least 30%. I still give a good product, and I treat my clientele well. Obviously, this makes some people very angry. Does this make me an enemy of those around me? Am I lowering the value of my profession? I think not.

I'm not willing to work for peanuts. But if I offer a student that has spent $1000 for my services $25 dollars off in the future, I think that I'll continue to make everyone happy...
 
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