Just offered a real Job

Acadia

Well-Known Member
Just got my first offer for a real aviation job (beyond flight instruction and with a real salary and benefits). An old student of mine has a medium sized company needs a pilot to fly with him. He is buying a 2001 Piper Mirage to use as transportation from Maine to MI, OH, & NY every couple of weeks. He needs a second pilot to get insured and has suggested a two year contract with full benefits. The best part is that he does not expect me to stay over while he is on multi-day work trips so I can fly the aircraft home until he needs a pickup. Sounds like the work would be very part time with a very respectable salary. I guess I meet the insurance minimums once I go to Piper Mirage training.

Downside: Not sure about our personalities working together and I think he has some ego issues that could compromise safety. Based on this I’m actually considering turning the offer down and continuing my current work - flight instruction, scenic flights, and glider towing. Am I crazy?! (I really do have a sinking feeling about safely flying with this person since I would probably end up right seating frequently).
 

CK

Well-Known Member
He's going to spend all that money and only fly once every couple weeks
 

Grumpy01

New Member
Take it from a Belfast native. If you even THINK there are possible ego/safety concerns. Two years is a long time to be tied to a contract.

After the first disagreement about safety of flight and he gives you the "it's my A/C and it's my way. You will be left with only one option, and the very distinct possibility of a bad referal.

Just one thing to consider.
 

av8rmsu

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Just got my first offer for a real aviation job (beyond flight instruction and with a real salary and benefits). An old student of mine has a medium sized company needs a pilot to fly with him. He is buying a 2001 Piper Mirage to use as transportation from Maine to MI, OH, & NY every couple of weeks. He needs a second pilot to get insured and has suggested a two year contract with full benefits. The best part is that he does not expect me to stay over while he is on multi-day work trips so I can fly the aircraft home until he needs a pickup. Sounds like the work would be very part time with a very respectable salary. I guess I meet the insurance minimums once I go to Piper Mirage training.

Downside: Not sure about our personalities working together and I think he has some ego issues that could compromise safety. Based on this I’m actually considering turning the offer down and continuing my current work - flight instruction, scenic flights, and glider towing. Am I crazy?! (I really do have a sinking feeling about safely flying with this person since I would probably end up right seating frequently).

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Just pull the plug on your headphones and act like a mute that doesn't know what is going on.


I would go for it....it could be good training for the a&%$oles you will be flying with in the future. Just make some ground rules with some "sterile cockpit" criteria. If you sign a contract, make sure there is a way out.
 

Sprint100

Well-Known Member
I would also accept the offer. Only with a contract that gives me the oppurtunity to opt out if I decide to, or have a shorter commit time , like 6-months, with an extension if you perform well. If he goes for the shorter committ time, neither you or him will be stuck in case it doesn't work out.
 

Eagle

New Member
Take the job,

You will need to work with jersk your entire life, the trick is learning how to work with the jerks..
 

Tim

New Member
I have an opportunity kinda like yours except that I like the guy I would be flying for. He doesnt have an ego or pilot license. He wants to learn and has mentioned about supporting (money I hope) my CFI ticket. He is getting a Mirage also and he is pretty much letting me pick the one that suits he price range and need. He will be flying alot sometimes several places in a day but I wont mind. His business partner is my wife so she is cool with it. I told her if he is out of town and the plane is gone they are making money.
Its hard to turn down a flying job. The contract length is questionable though.
 

naunga

New Member
Sounds like a great opportunity.

If you have concerns about his ego compromising safety then my suggestion would be this:

In a non-direct manner, talk with him about safety etc. Who has final authority for the flight? What you would expect him to do if he saw you doing something that he felt was unsafe, etc. Use yourself as the target. Once you've had that talk maybe ask if you can get some of that in writing. Kinda like an SOP.

I'll echo what a lot of other people have said, you're going to end up working with difficult people no matter what you do (pilot, IT, flippin' burgers) so learning to deal with it can help you a lot.

It's a fine line to walk. You said this guy was a former student, so base your decision on how to handle the ego problems on what your relationship with the guy is.

Another suggestion might be to ask if you can do a 90 day trial period. Try to keep your CFI spot open in case things don't work out and fly with him a few times. If your fears are confirmed then you can walk away and still have the CFI spot, or you can discuss the issues with him and maybe get things to change. No matter what you do though make sure before you sign a contract that you have an out.

Anyhow, good luck to you! It sounds like a cool gig either way.

Naunga
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
The best thing for you to do before making a decision either way is to sit down and talk with the guy. Air out your concerns now or you will indeed be screwed with/if the fecal matter makes contact with the oscillating air unit.

Otherwise, it sounds like a good opportunity.

Best of luck!

R2F
 

C650CPT

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Downside: Not sure about our personalities working together and I think he has some ego issues that could compromise safety. Based on this I’m actually considering turning the offer down and continuing my current work - flight instruction, scenic flights, and glider towing. Am I crazy?! (I really do have a sinking feeling about safely flying with this person since I would probably end up right seating frequently).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are answering your own question. Your gut instinc is a God given instinc that if more people would listen to, they would be alive today.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but allow me to be the devil's advocate here. Why did he ask you to be his "pilot"? Could it be that he sees you as an "easy" mark that is non intimidating to himself? I qualify this by saying I don't know you or him, but consider it.

As R2fly said if you go forward with this, sit down and discuss the standards that you will operate under, I would even go as far as to recomend you write up a safety contract with him and have him sign it. He's asking a committment from you and its fair game to ask him to committ in writing what behavior is acceptable to the both of you.

There will be other opportunities out there for you, exspecially if you develope a reputation as a sound decision maker, but you only have one life to do it in. Don't let this arse hole or any other jerk risk your life for thier ego.

This is an emotionally charged decesion you must make, but let your logic rule here, you will apprecieate it later in life. The sad part is that if you decide not to take the job there are plenty of others that will take him up on it. Let's hope we don't have to read about it someday on the NTSB web page.

Good Luck and let us know your final decision.
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
I was kind of surprised that he called me with the offer. We got along ok some of the time when he was doing his training, but we had some full on shouting matches in there as well! He actually seems like a nice enough person most of the time, but I worry that his ego could come in the way of good judgment. As suggested above I would like to engineer the contract so that it is clear that I am always PIC and have the ability to cancel any flight for reasonable safety reasons. I also want to make sure I have a safe way out so he cant come after me for the cost of the Mirage training in a few months if things don’t work out.

The best part is that I would continue to do other types of flying such as instruction while I work for him. I would have a fixed salary and plenty of spare time, which is very attractive. I just need to stake out what my requirements are and stick to them and be prepared to walk away at anytime. I will report back as or if a contract develops.
 

pkloop

New Member
He had full on shouting matches with you as your student? I would have landed the plane and told him to beat it. No room for that
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I would have landed the plane and told him to beat it.

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I did! He always came back with an apology. Actually I made the shouting matches out to sound worse than in reality. Lets just say he liked to disagree. I should have added that this individual was a jet fight pilot in the early days of jet fighters (early 1960’s). He left the service and stopped flying all together about 40 years ago and started with his private again a little over a year ago. So way back he had some pretty cool experiences and he still thinks he is a fighter pilot (even though a 172 was pretty taxing for him!). This is part of the source of his ego issues.

I sent off my contract requirements. I have not heard anything back today.
 

C650CPT

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
this individual was a jet fight pilot in the early days of jet fighters (early 1960’s). He left the service and stopped flying all together about 40 years ago and started with his private again a little over a year ago. So way back he had some pretty cool experiences and he still thinks he is a fighter pilot (even though a 172 was pretty taxing for him!). This is part of the source of his ego issues.

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Whoa ... STOP the train! Is this guy tomcatter"s Dad? IF he was a prior Military Pilot why didn't he already have a pilot's license, they don't expire. Did he even make it through training? Doesn't sound like it if he had the same attitude. If he had even one utilization tour he would remember the basics. I'd pull the curtain open on this guy ... Mike D could help you with that. It is incredulous that someone would say they were a fighter pilot and not be able to handle a C-172, but we know it happens. It don't add up with what you've shared. Also sounds like you two have an abused wife syndrome thing going ...
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
He is or was the real thing. He left the military around 1964 and went to school and then got into business. He forgot about flying for 40 years. He certainly remembered how to fly, but he really had to relearn almost everything. A: we are talking 40 years & B: He is pretty old now C: Much has changed. He never converted any of his flight time into the civilian side and he had no idea where his logbooks were so the easy route was to just get a private instrument again given that he would need a load of training anyway.

I have zero doubts about his past experience (plenty of evidence to support his background). Again you really would have to know this person to understand the picture I am attempting to paint.
need a load of training anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
It is incredulous that someone would say they were a fighter pilot and not be able to handle a C-172

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Nah.. I have had a few airline pilots come for a 172 rental checkout that were pretty bad at flying little aircraft... and they were current!
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
I believe that you have to get a private ticket and then all your military experience carries over. I'm not sure. That's what someone at my old FBO told me and he flew F-4s so I think he probably knows what he's talking about.
 

C650CPT

Well-Known Member
You may have missunderstood him because that is not correct, it may have been different years ago, but back in 1991 when I graduated Army Flight Training all I had to do was to take an FAA written for the Military Comp, then I got my license for Commericial Instrument Helicopter. When I did the fixed wing transition I already had the FAA tickets so I didn't get any freebies.
My commander who has never flown a civilian airplane or taken a civilian lesson has an FAA ATP Fixed wing Multi Engine and an ATP Helicopter w/ intsrument priveledges plus a commercial ASEL. All he had to do was take 3 written tests, so his total out of pocket expenses for tests and study materials were under $300. The only flight test required was for the ATP and we both did that in the C-12 during a scheduled training flight. The boss got his ATP in a Huey, since I flew Cobras we didn't have any IPs that were DEs so I couldn't get my ATP in Helos.
I also got my type rateing in the C-12 ( BE-200 ) just by filling out an 8710.
 
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