Is there truth to this (Airline vs. Corporate)?
- Thread starter psalm91
- Start date
BlueStreak
New Member
I would tend to think that it would mostly depend on the company, their type of operation, and the type of individual applying. I think most companies would hire on a "whole person" concept and not just judge by their experience alone. The 121 & 91 flying worlds can be quite different, 121 crews interact very little with passengers while 91 crews are usually flying for the aircraft owner or high level execs. The 91 job can be quite demanding for a former airline pilot that isn't used to having to load bags, change destinations, arrange transportation, catering, etc. for the passengers. That being said, It all comes down to the person and whether or not they can adapt or are willing to adapt to the new flying environment
My company (91 & 135 flying) has a wide variety of pilots from all backgrounds: military, airline, cargo, fractional, charter, etc.
My company (91 & 135 flying) has a wide variety of pilots from all backgrounds: military, airline, cargo, fractional, charter, etc.
frog_flyer
FredFlyer
When I interviewed at Regal Aviation ( now jet direct?) at KDAL, the HR/VP said they don't really like to hire 121 dudes. They tend to hate pax (don't have supurb customer service skills), and don't usually stick around for a long time.
That being said, their (recently) former chief pilot was a delta furlough.
That being said, their (recently) former chief pilot was a delta furlough.
ananoman
New Member
Although your post is probably meant as a joke, it is true in many respects. For some reason, once someone has worked for a major, they often act this way. At my company, we have had two pilots who did not work out for this reason. When it cost over $20k to train someone, this is a very real consideration. I know that there will not be another long time airline pilot hired where I work, although the owner has said he would consider a young regional pilot.True. Its because we are lazy and won't fix our own coffee, load bags, clean cabin, etc... And we bitch and moan about everything.
Seriously though, I have heard that corporate folks don't like us airline guys.
GrantHubbell
New Member
I don't think its intirely true. I know a former UAL 777 Checkairman/Chief Pilot and he is the VP of Flight operations at a Fourtne 20 Company.
TexasFlyer
Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
This fact is absolutely true. As an Aviation Recruiter who works almost exclusively with Part 91 Corproate and 135 Charter/ Fractional/ Cargo/ etc., I know what my clients in this segment of aviation request first hand.
In 100% of cases if I presented a 121 person they would fire me from ever helping them to find a pilot for them again (no exceptions). These companies also require a type rating in the aircraft along with some PIC time (in some cases, they'll look at SIC typed).
The reasons stated for this vary. But the theme is who most 121 pilots do not work out since they are not looking to do everything from cleaning the carpet to making coffee and throwing bags and handling all the paperwork too. Other reasons tend to be the lack of interest in being on a first name and friendly basis with the passengers they cater to. And sometimes they are even seen as lazy when asked to work much more than they been use to since the corporate world is much more demanding on a pilot than 121 (so I am told by my clients).
Don't bash me for writing this. I'm just the agent of bad news for 121 guys on a daily basis when they find out what I do and they want in with a solid 91 or 135 operation (outside of cargo). These companies just do not pay me to find someone who is less than "perfect" in qualifications.
The good news is that there are a handful of cases where they'll look at 121 experience, but you have to dig real deep to find these operations as they are few and far between. And quite frankly, the ones I come across that have this flexibility are not the places I would work with since their working conditions are not on par with the more demanding departments. The worse the company, the lower the standards you'll have to have in hiring a pilot who meets the "ideal" specs on your position. So keep that in mind. Of course, you can work there and get expereince and leave after a few years of PIC in Type. The best way to cross over from 121 is to personally know the Chief Pilot at the operation you want to work at. So start networking if you want to fly business jets! Go to Association meetings. Go to conventions. Go to the FBOs and offer up a conversation to learn who the Chief Pilot is and then go talk with him/her. After doing this long enough, you'll be in the right place at the right time and get your chance.
If you want a good correlation to other industries, here it is. I was also a professional recruiter in the Accounting indusrty for many years. The same arguements exists there. If I am looking for an accounting professional with 3 years of audit experience for a Fortune 1000 company in the oil/gas indusrty, tax accountants and general accountants need not apply. The tax accountant or the general accountant has the degree, the skills, and everything else to perform in the position. The auditor out of the insurance indusrty especially has the skills since he or she is doing the same exact job right now, just within a different indusrty segment. But these professionals will not get the job. The company will hold out for an audit professional who has some hands-on expereince in the oil-gas indusrty. They expect a CPA who has audit from either a highly respected "Big 4" CPA firm with the indusrty exposuire or someone who has indusrty experience with a direct competitor or similar. So as in any career, things have become very narrow now in 2006 and it will continue to get worse.
Where you start early in your career has a major bearing on where you will end up in career path. This is why us recruiters are hired on to find the perfect person too. Once the company can not find the right people on their own, they know they can pay me somewhere around 25-30% of someone's first year compensation so they can find that perfectly qualified person that meets all the criteria. And we always do! Turnover from employees who are not trainable or proven or who leave after a couple years cost more money than what we charge. Hence why we are one of the fastest growing industry segments. Choose your career path wisely, and choose it early! I have learned worlds of experience from this business and that makes me grateful since I know exactly what I must do to be most marketable to different segments of the professional pilot profession.
Joseph Alai
Director, Aviation Division
Deacon Recruiting
San Antonio, TX
210-494-1000, ext. 227
jalai@deaconrecruiting.com
In 100% of cases if I presented a 121 person they would fire me from ever helping them to find a pilot for them again (no exceptions). These companies also require a type rating in the aircraft along with some PIC time (in some cases, they'll look at SIC typed).
The reasons stated for this vary. But the theme is who most 121 pilots do not work out since they are not looking to do everything from cleaning the carpet to making coffee and throwing bags and handling all the paperwork too. Other reasons tend to be the lack of interest in being on a first name and friendly basis with the passengers they cater to. And sometimes they are even seen as lazy when asked to work much more than they been use to since the corporate world is much more demanding on a pilot than 121 (so I am told by my clients).
Don't bash me for writing this. I'm just the agent of bad news for 121 guys on a daily basis when they find out what I do and they want in with a solid 91 or 135 operation (outside of cargo). These companies just do not pay me to find someone who is less than "perfect" in qualifications.
The good news is that there are a handful of cases where they'll look at 121 experience, but you have to dig real deep to find these operations as they are few and far between. And quite frankly, the ones I come across that have this flexibility are not the places I would work with since their working conditions are not on par with the more demanding departments. The worse the company, the lower the standards you'll have to have in hiring a pilot who meets the "ideal" specs on your position. So keep that in mind. Of course, you can work there and get expereince and leave after a few years of PIC in Type. The best way to cross over from 121 is to personally know the Chief Pilot at the operation you want to work at. So start networking if you want to fly business jets! Go to Association meetings. Go to conventions. Go to the FBOs and offer up a conversation to learn who the Chief Pilot is and then go talk with him/her. After doing this long enough, you'll be in the right place at the right time and get your chance.
If you want a good correlation to other industries, here it is. I was also a professional recruiter in the Accounting indusrty for many years. The same arguements exists there. If I am looking for an accounting professional with 3 years of audit experience for a Fortune 1000 company in the oil/gas indusrty, tax accountants and general accountants need not apply. The tax accountant or the general accountant has the degree, the skills, and everything else to perform in the position. The auditor out of the insurance indusrty especially has the skills since he or she is doing the same exact job right now, just within a different indusrty segment. But these professionals will not get the job. The company will hold out for an audit professional who has some hands-on expereince in the oil-gas indusrty. They expect a CPA who has audit from either a highly respected "Big 4" CPA firm with the indusrty exposuire or someone who has indusrty experience with a direct competitor or similar. So as in any career, things have become very narrow now in 2006 and it will continue to get worse.
Where you start early in your career has a major bearing on where you will end up in career path. This is why us recruiters are hired on to find the perfect person too. Once the company can not find the right people on their own, they know they can pay me somewhere around 25-30% of someone's first year compensation so they can find that perfectly qualified person that meets all the criteria. And we always do! Turnover from employees who are not trainable or proven or who leave after a couple years cost more money than what we charge. Hence why we are one of the fastest growing industry segments. Choose your career path wisely, and choose it early! I have learned worlds of experience from this business and that makes me grateful since I know exactly what I must do to be most marketable to different segments of the professional pilot profession.
Joseph Alai
Director, Aviation Division
Deacon Recruiting
San Antonio, TX
210-494-1000, ext. 227
jalai@deaconrecruiting.com
Airdale
Well-Known Member
What I don't understand then, is why many Corporate operators require Jet PIC time, even for an SIC position. I would love to land an awesome Corporate job. I have no problem with interacting with the passengers, loading bags etc. But 98% of the Corporate jobs I've seen for SIC positions, require either a type in the aircraft already or Jet PIC time. I'm building hours as an instructor flying multi engine aircraft, and I would really like to NOT go work for a Regional, but I don't know how else to be competitive in the Corporate market without flying something with jet engines. I could try the Cargo route, but I just don't think thats going to fit in with my lifestyle and what I want to do with flying. I prefer to fly in a crew environment, not just for safety but because I like to interact with people. I think if I had to fly 6-8hrs alone with the humming of the engines I'd go insane!
If only I could a good entry level position flying a King Air or something, then I could see a lot of potential there. I also heard that *some* Corporate operators like to find young pilots with relatively low time, that way they can train you and bring you up their way and hopefully keep you for the long haul as a Captain. Not sure how true that is, but I've yet to find anything. And I've got my nose to the ground like a bloodhound.
If only I could a good entry level position flying a King Air or something, then I could see a lot of potential there. I also heard that *some* Corporate operators like to find young pilots with relatively low time, that way they can train you and bring you up their way and hopefully keep you for the long haul as a Captain. Not sure how true that is, but I've yet to find anything. And I've got my nose to the ground like a bloodhound.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Personally, I see this as no different than assuming that all ERAU grads are stuck up bigots that think they deserve a job b/c of the name on their diploma. In a small industry such as aviation, I find it sad that companies would just generalize instead of looking at each applicant as an individual, especially the smaller corporate outfits. They do that for the executive management, why not the other cogs in the system?
As far as why do they want turbine time, my guess is to keep insurance as low as possible. If a pilot has some turbine experience, that would lower the insurance quite a bit. If he's typed in the aircraft with some time in that same aircraft, the insurance will drop even lower. Take someone who has no turbine time and no type and put him in a Citation or a Lear, and the insurance companies will more or less gouge ya.
As far as why do they want turbine time, my guess is to keep insurance as low as possible. If a pilot has some turbine experience, that would lower the insurance quite a bit. If he's typed in the aircraft with some time in that same aircraft, the insurance will drop even lower. Take someone who has no turbine time and no type and put him in a Citation or a Lear, and the insurance companies will more or less gouge ya.
sleepy3528
Well-Known Member
i really cant believe the post from the pilot recruiter. after having flown corporate and interacted with two completely different companies i have found that about 70% of the guys have gone airline either early or middle of their careers. most corporate guys are ex-regional or ex-military. very very few go up through king airs , to citations and whatnot. the king air guys and the citation guys usually have first crack at corporate jobs because its a smaller community and they hear about and apply before a job is even posted. in the past 5 years there has been a lot of old airline guys working corporate. I worked a Citation Bravo where 4 captains were all ex Continental 75 and 76 captains just kicking around in retirement. a lot of companies have Gulfstreams and the like with high insurance minimums with stipulations in that state "PIC of an aircraft over #### pounds" and sad to say that clause is keeping a lot of guys who go up through the corporate world flying smaller a/c. thats how it worked at a large drug company i worked for. Corporate is a completely different lifestyle compared to the airlines so obviously if an applicant doesnt quite know the game he most likely wont be looked at but there are plenty of regional guys to choose from. its all about the quality of the applicant. if you can make it to either level you can fly an airplane but the HR guys just want you to be able to smile and fit in with the group. So smile dammit
Tim
New Member
So Steve when do you graduate from Riddle? haha
Tim
New Member
This doesnt necessarily relate as a pilot part but when I went to work at World Airways as a Ground Operations Coordinator I was later told that they were skeptical of hiring me because I had come from a scheduled airline job. They said their past experience showed them that making that adjustment for many was tough and being able to put together a sub-service flight in a just a few hours was very hard for many. In my job we had to order catering, fuel, set up ground handling, get a rep available to either ride or meet the flight in 2 different cities, and handle any customs issues. At times the job was boring but when a situation like above was needed I could be busy for 12 straight hours working out details and keeping the company we are subbing for informed. I know this was more about airline pilots going to corporate world but in a sense its the same thing. Ramp rats at a sheduled airline never have to do all those things I mentioned.
I think that the attitude varies, a lot, over the corporate spectrum. I can certainly see how Joseph's clients would have the requirement to only hire from within the corporate world since they are (probably) the upper echelon of corporate jobs. Those corporations can pick the cream of the crop, and someone coming from a purely airline background will be an unknown factor for their type of flying. The corporate Fortune 500 know that they are at the top of the pyramid so can use multiple factors to winnow down the pile of resumes, just as the top airlines can be ultra-choosey on who they pick. Does the fact that a pilot has a college degree really make them a better candidate for an airline job? No, it really comes down to the individual, but airlines know that the degree is a good indicator in general of someone's ability to learn and therefore it becomes another way to narrow down the number of candidates. Sure they miss out on a lot of good pilots that don't have a degree, but it improves the odds for their hiring process.
From my experience I think that it is much easier to cross over from the airline to the corporate world at the lower, more entry-level type jobs. Keep in mind that many corporate / fractional operators are looking at 2000 - 3000 hours as "entry level" qualifications. There are lots of guys that "time build" at the regionals or freight operators, then make the jump to corporate fractional when they get 2500 TT/500+ turbine.
The top corporate jobs are going to require 5000 hours to even get a sniff, and they will only want people that have a proven track record in corporate (or fractional / charter) jet operations. These are the jobs that are, in most cases, not going to be considering anyone coming over from the airline side. There are just too many differences in job descriptions. Why hire a 10 year airline vet when you are going to have to spend lots of time and money getting him up to speed on the nuances of corporate travel, and there is a chance that the pilot may not like or be good at those customer relations aspects that are primary? When you have a stack of resumes lined up (or at least numerous qualified applicants on Joseph's desk
) there is no need to take that chance.
If regional guys want to make the move to the corporate side, I'd say do it earlier rather than later. And realize that networking is much more important on the corporate side than even the airline side. When you are looking at a flight department that has only two aircraft and six pilots you can be sure that personalitiy is one of the top requirements and an inside recommendation is almost mandatory in many cases.
Airdale, you're on the right track. The one thing that you need to realize is that the positions that are openly advertised are usually not the entry level positions that you need. If an entry level job is being openly advertised then there is, quite likely, something about that job that is keeping it from being filled by word of mouth alone. The key to getting that entry level King Air or Citation job is being in the right place at the right time. You need face time with the guys doing the hiring, and that means walking your resume into every little operator near where you live, and poking your head in and saying hello to the chief pilot every chance you get. Don't be overbearing or annoying, but keep your availability known. Many (most) beginning turbine jobs go to the person that is there and available and I have seen that most small operation chief pilots don't spend a lot of time with the resumes that come across their desk. They know that they are a stepping stone operation and that the guy they hire today will be moving on in a year or two, often without much notice, so it is easier to just grab the guy that was in your office last week and had the hours you need (insurance) and seemed like a good person in general. You just have to be that guy.
From my experience I think that it is much easier to cross over from the airline to the corporate world at the lower, more entry-level type jobs. Keep in mind that many corporate / fractional operators are looking at 2000 - 3000 hours as "entry level" qualifications. There are lots of guys that "time build" at the regionals or freight operators, then make the jump to corporate fractional when they get 2500 TT/500+ turbine.
The top corporate jobs are going to require 5000 hours to even get a sniff, and they will only want people that have a proven track record in corporate (or fractional / charter) jet operations. These are the jobs that are, in most cases, not going to be considering anyone coming over from the airline side. There are just too many differences in job descriptions. Why hire a 10 year airline vet when you are going to have to spend lots of time and money getting him up to speed on the nuances of corporate travel, and there is a chance that the pilot may not like or be good at those customer relations aspects that are primary? When you have a stack of resumes lined up (or at least numerous qualified applicants on Joseph's desk
) there is no need to take that chance.If regional guys want to make the move to the corporate side, I'd say do it earlier rather than later. And realize that networking is much more important on the corporate side than even the airline side. When you are looking at a flight department that has only two aircraft and six pilots you can be sure that personalitiy is one of the top requirements and an inside recommendation is almost mandatory in many cases.
What I don't understand then, is why many Corporate operators require Jet PIC time, even for an SIC position. I would love to land an awesome Corporate job. I have no problem with interacting with the passengers, loading bags etc. But 98% of the Corporate jobs I've seen for SIC positions, require either a type in the aircraft already or Jet PIC time. I'm building hours as an instructor flying multi engine aircraft, and I would really like to NOT go work for a Regional, but I don't know how else to be competitive in the Corporate market without flying something with jet engines. I could try the Cargo route, but I just don't think thats going to fit in with my lifestyle and what I want to do with flying. I prefer to fly in a crew environment, not just for safety but because I like to interact with people. I think if I had to fly 6-8hrs alone with the humming of the engines I'd go insane!
If only I could a good entry level position flying a King Air or something, then I could see a lot of potential there. I also heard that *some* Corporate operators like to find young pilots with relatively low time, that way they can train you and bring you up their way and hopefully keep you for the long haul as a Captain. Not sure how true that is, but I've yet to find anything. And I've got my nose to the ground like a bloodhound.
Airdale, you're on the right track. The one thing that you need to realize is that the positions that are openly advertised are usually not the entry level positions that you need. If an entry level job is being openly advertised then there is, quite likely, something about that job that is keeping it from being filled by word of mouth alone. The key to getting that entry level King Air or Citation job is being in the right place at the right time. You need face time with the guys doing the hiring, and that means walking your resume into every little operator near where you live, and poking your head in and saying hello to the chief pilot every chance you get. Don't be overbearing or annoying, but keep your availability known. Many (most) beginning turbine jobs go to the person that is there and available and I have seen that most small operation chief pilots don't spend a lot of time with the resumes that come across their desk. They know that they are a stepping stone operation and that the guy they hire today will be moving on in a year or two, often without much notice, so it is easier to just grab the guy that was in your office last week and had the hours you need (insurance) and seemed like a good person in general. You just have to be that guy.
What I don't understand then, is why many Corporate operators require Jet PIC time, even for an SIC position. I would love to land an awesome Corporate job. I have no problem with interacting with the passengers, loading bags etc. But 98% of the Corporate jobs I've seen for SIC positions, require either a type in the aircraft already or Jet PIC time. I'm building hours as an instructor flying multi engine aircraft, and I would really like to NOT go work for a Regional, but I don't know how else to be competitive in the Corporate market without flying something with jet engines. I could try the Cargo route, but I just don't think thats going to fit in with my lifestyle and what I want to do with flying. I prefer to fly in a crew environment, not just for safety but because I like to interact with people. I think if I had to fly 6-8hrs alone with the humming of the engines I'd go insane!
If only I could a good entry level position flying a King Air or something, then I could see a lot of potential there. I also heard that *some* Corporate operators like to find young pilots with relatively low time, that way they can train you and bring you up their way and hopefully keep you for the long haul as a Captain. Not sure how true that is, but I've yet to find anything. And I've got my nose to the ground like a bloodhound.
It's all about insurance. The less experience a pilot has, the more he will cost to insure. Corporate departments usually won't/can't waste money on insurance where an airline can and will.........every corporate department could be like eagle or expressjet and hire 300 hour wonders, but they'll be paying out the a** for insurance....it's all about the bottom line....:bandit:
TexasFlyer
Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
SteveC... that was the perfect post!
If some of you guys desiring corporate look real hard, you'll find some agreements out there to help you also. For example, look at Cape Air and then go to Executive Flightways (www.flycapeairjobs.com/career.html).
One more item. There are very few organization I would ever give money to when it comes to helping with a job search and/or networking. But I do recommend two. AIR Inc is good for general information and a membership for a year runs around $100-$200 if I remember correct. Thier career guide is useful and their monthly magazine will keep you in touch with all aspects of professional flying.
One of the few other places I suggest an aspiring corporate pilot pay money is to the NBAA. Go to the NBAA Convention in Orlando the 17th, 18th, and 19th. And find a way to be a memeber of the NBAA. I pay $350/year for my company membership I think. I am not sure if an individual can qualify as the NBAA is really only for companies in business aviation, but if they allow an individual pilot to be a member it's an absolute must! The NBAA is a great starting point for networking and having access to many people like myself and the direct hiring managers at all kinds of 91 and 135 operators. You will get a book that is like a gold-mine as it will list out thousands of companies with hiring manager contact info; that's worth the membership alone! Also, I think if you go to www.nbaa.org you can view some select jobs in corproate flying world (go to "Airmail" and then "business aviation jobs archive"; not sure if non-members can view though but give it a try).
Do your research and be persistent, you'll realize your dream then. Just have a plan put together to accomplish it and understand you might have to make a couple less than desirible moves before getting to your ideal position.
Here is a sample 10 year plan to bizjet reach a goal that I put together for someone recenlty that needed consulting help. Just be flexible in your plan and enjoy the ride. Here is the plan summary with reasonable benchmarks...
* Start accelerated flight school or FBO to gain ratings @ Oct 2007
* Start CFI to gain flight hours and some multi @ Oct 2008
* AmeriFlight or similar to gain 135/ multi experience @ Jan 2010
* Cape Air to gain 135 pax experience @ Jan 2012
* Executive Flightways to begin bizjet experience in type @ June 2014
* Corporate Part 91 Flight Department @ March 2018
------------------------
Other options along the way:
* Maybe remain in Cargo and shoot for UPS or FedEx long term if liking it.
* Maybe stay at CapeAir if loving the work there.
* Regionals, always an option early on if decide not to go corproate jets.
* Maybe remain with Executive Flightways or switch to another fractional/ managed/ or charter outfit if liking that work.
If some of you guys desiring corporate look real hard, you'll find some agreements out there to help you also. For example, look at Cape Air and then go to Executive Flightways (www.flycapeairjobs.com/career.html).
One more item. There are very few organization I would ever give money to when it comes to helping with a job search and/or networking. But I do recommend two. AIR Inc is good for general information and a membership for a year runs around $100-$200 if I remember correct. Thier career guide is useful and their monthly magazine will keep you in touch with all aspects of professional flying.
One of the few other places I suggest an aspiring corporate pilot pay money is to the NBAA. Go to the NBAA Convention in Orlando the 17th, 18th, and 19th. And find a way to be a memeber of the NBAA. I pay $350/year for my company membership I think. I am not sure if an individual can qualify as the NBAA is really only for companies in business aviation, but if they allow an individual pilot to be a member it's an absolute must! The NBAA is a great starting point for networking and having access to many people like myself and the direct hiring managers at all kinds of 91 and 135 operators. You will get a book that is like a gold-mine as it will list out thousands of companies with hiring manager contact info; that's worth the membership alone! Also, I think if you go to www.nbaa.org you can view some select jobs in corproate flying world (go to "Airmail" and then "business aviation jobs archive"; not sure if non-members can view though but give it a try).
Do your research and be persistent, you'll realize your dream then. Just have a plan put together to accomplish it and understand you might have to make a couple less than desirible moves before getting to your ideal position.
Here is a sample 10 year plan to bizjet reach a goal that I put together for someone recenlty that needed consulting help. Just be flexible in your plan and enjoy the ride. Here is the plan summary with reasonable benchmarks...
* Start accelerated flight school or FBO to gain ratings @ Oct 2007
* Start CFI to gain flight hours and some multi @ Oct 2008
* AmeriFlight or similar to gain 135/ multi experience @ Jan 2010
* Cape Air to gain 135 pax experience @ Jan 2012
* Executive Flightways to begin bizjet experience in type @ June 2014
* Corporate Part 91 Flight Department @ March 2018
------------------------
Other options along the way:
* Maybe remain in Cargo and shoot for UPS or FedEx long term if liking it.
* Maybe stay at CapeAir if loving the work there.
* Regionals, always an option early on if decide not to go corproate jets.
* Maybe remain with Executive Flightways or switch to another fractional/ managed/ or charter outfit if liking that work.
ananoman
New Member
One thing that can be very different between Airline and 135/Corporate flying is all the additional responsibilities you have as a corporate pilot. Besides the obvious of loading and unloading bags, you have to make sure the catering is there, make sure the aircraft is cleaned and stocked, and do all your own flight planning. This can include booking your hotel rooms and rental cars, etc.
For domestic stuff, flight planning is pretty easy. We use fltplan.com and it works great. International is a bit more difficult. You may need overflight permits, fuel availibility may be a problem, etc. The real killer can be dealing with customs. If this is screwed up the fines are very steep. Even if you use Universal or some of the other services, you have to really be aware of what is going on and make sure everything is done correctly. Because, you are the one who is ultimately responsible.
I have flown with retired airline captains who have been great (one bought his type rating to get into the game). I have also known of airline people who have been hired to be a Captain at over 70k per year and have left to go be a FO for a regional.
For domestic stuff, flight planning is pretty easy. We use fltplan.com and it works great. International is a bit more difficult. You may need overflight permits, fuel availibility may be a problem, etc. The real killer can be dealing with customs. If this is screwed up the fines are very steep. Even if you use Universal or some of the other services, you have to really be aware of what is going on and make sure everything is done correctly. Because, you are the one who is ultimately responsible.
I have flown with retired airline captains who have been great (one bought his type rating to get into the game). I have also known of airline people who have been hired to be a Captain at over 70k per year and have left to go be a FO for a regional.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
My department has been very generous about hiring furloughed and former Part 121 pilots. I'm extremely thankful and do my very best to provide good customer service to our passengers.
Us furloughed guys are kind of like the dogs you find in the pound. We make the best pets if you'll just give us the chance.
Us furloughed guys are kind of like the dogs you find in the pound. We make the best pets if you'll just give us the chance.
B767Driver
New Member
Probably some truth. As a new hire major airline pilot I answered an ad to teach a Part 135 recurrent training class a couple of times per month to a local operator. I had decent experience as a ground school instructor, simulator and airplane instructor and check airman in the Part 135/121 world. On the phone, the H.R. rep was excited to meet and interview me. I showed up for an interview with the D.O. When he saw who I worked for, he basically showed me the door (he was quite a slob with poor communication skills, FWIW). As I walked out the door, he asked if I knew anything about RVSM certification as they were about to start flying in across the Atlantic. I looked at him like he had to be kidding. The H.R. rep apologized repeatedly and was mortified.
I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the fact that he probably applied to major airlines for his entire life and never got a call or was rejected.
flyover
New Member
As someone said above, when the investment is so high you can't keep making the same mistakes over and over. I had some corporate experience before I went to 121 and there is no doubt it's a different mindset. I think the attitude towards passengers (god forbid they be referred to as customers) on this forum is a good example.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Actually, one of my friends who was at United and got furloughed did say that about corporate aviation. She ended up flying corporate part time and she did complain about having to cater the plane, load the bags, and so on!
And this is from someone who worked corporate before she got the United gig!
I guess when you get used to not having to worry about that, it's hard to go back to doing it.