is the ATP airline career pilot program worth it?

djmoon1988

djmoon1988

Well-Known Member
Hey do you guys think the ATP airline career pilot program is worth it? It says $39,995 for the program for private to commercial and CFI, but realistically what are we looking at? About $45,000+ for examiner fees, housing, and other hidden costs? And what happens if you need more hours of flying to prepare for exams? do they charge more?

Any information and comments would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
Re: is the ATP airline career pilot program is worth it?

Long answer, no.

Why rush into a great deal of debt for a job that won't be there for two to three years? Why not take that same amount of time and pay for your training as you go so you can get to that glamorous right seat debt free?

ATP has it's pros and cons like anything else. For targeted training they are great but the career program is just only really good for creating a great deal of debt in a very short amount of time.
 
djmoon1988 said:
Hey do you guys think the ATP airline career pilot program is worth it? It says $39,995 for the program for private to commercial and CFI, but realistically what are we looking at? About $45,000+ for examiner fees, housing, and other hidden costs? And what happens if you need more hours of flying to prepare for exams? do they charge more?

Any information and comments would be appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Depends.

I agree with esa17 about staying out of debt, and that there will not be any jobs for a few years.
ATP worked well for me. There are not very many options around here as far as flight training goes, and those that are here were about the same in cost. ATP was a good option for me.
As far as hidden costs; there aren't any. If you need more time to prep for a checkride; it'll cost you. Although they do have time built into the program that can cover extra training here and there. I found that the hours provided for each phase was sufficient. It is not easy and is not for everyone, but I have no regrets.
 
Worked very well for me, delivered as promised, worth every $.
It's a lot of hard work, long days flying and studying, very intense course. Witnessed a few people not making it and going back to the FBO route.
Depending on your study habits and self-discipline it may or may not work for you.
Good luck.
 
Nope

Read the news. At least an 800 hour requirement for 121 F/O's
as well, the FAA just predicted a record low for flight training next year. So good luck building time as an instructor.
You're not getting some sort of seniority leg-up anymore with ATP.
 
44Driver said:
Nope

Read the news. At least an 800 hour requirement for 121 F/O's
as well, the FAA just predicted a record low for flight training next year. So good luck building time as an instructor.
You're not getting some sort of seniority leg-up anymore with ATP.
Click to expand...

You never did. You were gaurenteed an interview. At best, it was usually just practice. Going to ATP and it being worth it depends on the individual. Understand most advice here on ATP is biased. I went, had a good time, and thought it had decent value. I also made it through on time, on budget and no busted checkrides. But, YMMV.


Edit to add: If you didn't attend ATP, please don't comment on questions like this. Opnions should be educated, not off the cuff like seems to happen so much in this forum.
 
Just wanted to add something. ATP was here before the 250hr wonder pilots were getting hired, and will be here well after this current slowdown has passed.
 
ATP does not get you a seniority number at any airline. What is does is get you through your ratings and building time faster. I know guys that have been flying for 4 years and have about 1200 hours. For them it was about 2 years of training and about 2 years of instructing. I am now at about 1100 hours spent 6 months training about almost 2 years of instructing. ATP is not for everyone. You have to study on your own and not give in to going out drinking and partying every night.
 
No, the program is not worth it in my opinion.

I was seriously considering going through ATP or a similar program back in 2007 when the airlines were hiring huge amounts of pilots. Looking back I'm really glad I didn't. I would have likely either finished right after the hiring wave, or just in time to get a job then be furloughed shortly after with a boatload of debt.

Instead, I got my ratings at a local flight school while working part time. It may have taken longer, I am just not finishing my CFI. But, I am debt free.
 
mshunter said:
You never did. You were gaurenteed an interview. At best, it was usually just practice. Going to ATP and it being worth it depends on the individual. Understand most advice here on ATP is biased. I went, had a good time, and thought it had decent value. I also made it through on time, on budget and no busted checkrides. But, YMMV.


Edit to add: If you didn't attend ATP, please don't comment on questions like this. Opnions should be educated, not off the cuff like seems to happen so much in this forum.
Click to expand...

So when the website reads, "Seniority is everything, get there first with ATP" what does that imply?

The place is not going under I agree. There will always be people willing to get deep into debt that is almost impossible to pay off as an F/O waiting years to upgrade.
I went to ATP last year, so I think I'm entitled to an educated opinion.
If you're going to get into dept, do it getting a 4 year degree. Take your time with aviation. There's a big diference between learning how to be an aviator and being in a race to grab that F/O seat.
 
44Driver said:
So when the website reads, "Seniority is everything, get there first with ATP" what does that imply?

The place is not going under I agree. There will always be people willing to get deep into debt that is almost impossible to pay off as an F/O waiting years to upgrade.
I went to ATP last year, so I think I'm entitled to an educated opinion.
If you're going to get into dept, do it getting a 4 year degree. Take your time with aviation. There's a big diference between learning how to be an aviator and being in a race to grab that F/O seat.
Click to expand...


Read post 9. Hours are hours. When the bar is set by hours, ATP = win. No matter if you go fly 135/121/91.

Edit to add: I have been at 135 mins for almost a year now, and got there after just over a year of instructing 7 days a week at two schools almost the entire time. Jobs are there if you are willing to find them. I am proof. In this ecnomy, I have had two flying jobs almost the entire time since the slowdown began.
 
All I did at ATP was the two-day ATP crash course in the seminole, and that's exactly what it was. I was very satisfied that I got what I paid for (as a matter of fact, I thought $995 at GKY for six hours in the seminole and 7 hours of my CFI's time was quite a steal). But I knew what it was from the beginning--a very fast way to walk in the door on Tuesday and get the ATP ticket on Wednesday. I didn't learn anything cosmic about flying in the two days, but I did memorize the 16 pages of that supplement they told me to learn ahead of time (and that's all I was asked on the oral). I told my instructor, "You know, I'd love to be the world's best seminole pilot. But to tell you the honest truth, I'm just here to pass a test." He grinned. It's highly accelerated and will kick your butt if you show up unprepared.

That said, I don't think I would have wanted to learn that way in my primary training. I did my certificates/ratings at my own pace (granted, the whole process from PPL to CFI took 4 years) and had a really good time doing it too. Flying more than 2-3 times per week, IMO, is great for building proficiency and getting your ratings quickly, but I can see how it'd be easy to get burned out and seem like a job very fast.

Then, I went to UPT and busted my rear, but that was a job, and I was getting paid. :D
 
I would not incur $50k in debt in this current economy. Really really really think hard about that. I wouldn't even know where to finance a flight school loan at this point. If you've got the cash laying around collecting dust, by all means go for it. But if you need to finance, than I say no. Hell no.

Pay as you go or do smaller sums at an FBO type operation. May take longer over the "long" run, but trust me, its going to be a few years before you'll get hired anyway. Take the time and save some money. Hours are hours. Ever since my first 121 gig, nobody has given two turds how much multi-engine Piper Seminole time I have.
 
Alright, I'm against the grain.

Nobody is hiring, but I feel like they will be hiring in the next couple of years, meaning it is now starting to be the time that you want to be in training.
What good does hiring do if you are in training and building time.

Hiring goes in cycles and you want to catch the front part of that wave.

I was beating the "what's your rush" drum for a while but that started in 2008, it is already 2010 and the up swing is coming.

Edit: You still don't have to rush through traingin, time is still on your side.
 
The short add-on programs are fast, but I believe the career program, at least where I am, is not just a "memorize the supplement" thing. In fact, you will fail the oral if all you know is the supplement. When I teach a Private or Commercial Multi, we go through the POH. We go down to the hangar and look at a stripped down 100 hour plane and identify and discuss every part on the aircraft. Of course, all done numerous times for effect.

I always see the "whats' your rush" thing. I bought off on it myself and went the long FBO route. You can look up my previous posts on the subject, but basically I missed the last hiring wave because I did not rush. I also had gaps in my knowledge from a general lack of structure to my training. Whether you go through ATP, or take exponentially longer at a small school, you still have to acquire the requisite time to go to an airline.

It looks like the minimum will be 800 hours. So why not start now? Be ready for the next hiring wave, which I believe is not far off. There is more hiring this year already than what most people on this board have predicted.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
I always see the "whats' your rush" thing. I bought off on it myself and went the long FBO route. You can look up my previous posts on the subject, but basically I missed the last hiring wave because I did not rush. I also had gaps in my knowledge from a general lack of structure to my training. Whether you go through ATP, or take exponentially longer at a small school, you still have to acquire the requisite time to go to an airline.
Click to expand...

I just wanna play Devil's advocate here for a second, because you and I joined JC right about the same time and, in fact, were looking into ATP about the same time, too....

Had you gone through the ACPP back then and gotten hired around that time frame, do you think you would have been furloughed in the last round or would you have accrued enough seniority to survive it? I know some folks around here did and some didn't.

It looks like the minimum will be 800 hours. So why not start now? Be ready for the next hiring wave, which I believe is not far off. There is more hiring this year already than what most people on this board have predicted.
Click to expand...

Based on what I've seen, I would have to concur with this statement. ATP (and ATP grads) routinely tell people that it's not for everyone. I was not in the right cash position to train at ATP at the time, and my aviation goals changed as well. But one thing I can definitely say is that the program is highly structured and forces the students to take initiative; to my way of thinking, this is a very good thing.
 
A few years ago it was. Today no. Like others have said there is not much hiring going on, you may not work at ATP as an instructor which means getting to 800 hours (if they raise it to that) is going to take a while. I say go to a local FBO get the ratings then go to ATP for a short program (CFI) then try to get hired somewhere. You can do it debt free.
 
FlybyLaw said:
A few years ago it was. Today no. Like others have said there is not much hiring going on, you may not work at ATP as an instructor which means getting to 800 hours (if they raise it to that) is going to take a while. I say go to a local FBO get the ratings then go to ATP for a short program (CFI) then try to get hired somewhere. You can do it debt free.
Click to expand...

They have raised it to that I thought?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top