Is a FE certificate worth anything?

Low&Slow

Ancora imparo
Well, I am still looking for a military flight job before I ETS. I have accepted the fact that I will never be PIC of a military aircraft, but I still want to fly in the military. I haven't had much success in finding useful information about UAS Operator, but I may have a chance to be a FE in a C-130 in the ANG. Is anyone here familiar with that AFSC? Is there an age cutoff?

Will that training qualify me to receive a civilian FE certificate? Is the time logged as an FE worth anything? Does it count toward Total Time? Does it count as Turbine Time? Is the FE certificate worth anything?

Also, I'm kinda curious about crew interaction since the FE is enlisted and has lots of face time with the Os.
 

granlistillo

Well-Known Member
i was a enlisted aircraft mechanic and later a commissioned navigator/flight officer in the military which is a obsolete certificate FAA wise. My military training/experience made 121 training a lot less difficult.
Plus I got to see the world, gain professional experience and make great dough doing it. Oh did I mention, the need to serve my country in whatever capacity the military hierarchy deemed fit at that time, was my prime motivation??

I had a buddy that flew for Lufthansa that got his start as an ANG FE. His squadron commander wrote his FE ticket, and yes, if you read part 61, FE time counts (half of it, up to 500 hrs if i remember) towards AE for a FAA ATP.

But I am a firm believer that one should serve, not for what is "in it for you" but because you believe the USA and its Constitution are worth defending. So if you are making the decision solely based on your careers aims, please do us all a favor and keep on trucking towards the exit door. This career is not for you...
Based on your initial post, any board seeing this would rightly reject you.
 

granlistillo

Well-Known Member
Well,

Looks like I have egg on my face. I have reread your post and see that I have totally jumped to conclusions. I am tempted to delete it, but hey you gotta own up to your mistakes. Truly sorryfor the knee jerk and incorrect response to your query.

Apparently you are already in the military... and need no lectures. As posted before, military FE time does count toward ATP and imparts great experience. I have another friend who is a successful RJ pilot who is very low time, except for his hours as an FE. PM if you want and I can give you his contact details.


Bear
 

Low&Slow

Ancora imparo
Truly sorryfor the knee jerk and incorrect response to your query.
It's cool, don't worry about it Bear, no offense was taken at all. I knew it was a misunderstanding and that you would correct the error sooner or later. I have seen posts like what you were describing though and understand how preconditioning works.

Here are some potential plusses I started thinking about as I was going to sleep last night:
- This would make a great networking position as many ANG pilots are also civilian pilots.
- As part of the flight crew, I would be staying and eating with the Os (better QOL) despite being enlisted.

Negatives:
- Deploy alot
- Long training pipeline
- Low pay. This is mainly a concern during the pipeline. My boss doesn't support my umm, "distraction of military service." I am on my own dime while on active duty for training, but the company makes up the difference in my civilian pay if I am deployed.

Unsures:
- Questions I posted earlier in initial post above
- Comaradarie mostly because I'm not familiar with how AF Os and Es interact, especially in a flight crew. In the Infantry, respect is a two way street and I get along well with all our Os and SNCOs. I work well in a team and can take orders, I can take jokes, and I can make decisions, but I don't do well with micromanagers or being talked down to.
- Usefulness of the FE certificate itself, but as granlistillo pointed out, 500 hrs of it does count toward the ATP (which is a plus)
- Whether I would be better of as FE or UAS Operator. (I'm kinda leaning toward FE though)
- Age cutoff
- Speed of promotion
- Difficulty of school (I'm betting it's a ball buster) and pass/fail rate
- What happens if I am a NO GO? Recycle? Go to the needs of the AF? Can I transfer back to the Army if I bolo FE school?
 

granlistillo

Well-Known Member
As far as the certificate usefulness goes, if you get one with a "turbojet rating", there are still some 3 seat cockpits out there. But you don't have to "use it", for it to have value.

As far as the O E thing in the ANG, it is way more relaxed than in the Army, especially if you are aircrew. WAY different, for the better I think

As far as deployments, I think in most of the cases you would be looking at TDYs. And yes that means perdiem and nice Qs, and hotels.

If I was looking to take any enlisted job, FE school would be a top choice.
 

HeyEng

NAHB Doesn't Give a Crap
It's cool, don't worry about it Bear, no offense was taken at all. I knew it was a misunderstanding and that you would correct the error sooner or later. I have seen posts like what you were describing though and understand how preconditioning works.

Here are some potential plusses I started thinking about as I was going to sleep last night:
- This would make a great networking position as many ANG pilots are also civilian pilots.
- As part of the flight crew, I would be staying and eating with the Os (better QOL) despite being enlisted.

Negatives:
- Deploy alot
- Long training pipeline
- Low pay. This is mainly a concern during the pipeline. My boss doesn't support my umm, "distraction of military service." I am on my own dime while on active duty for training, but the company makes up the difference in my civilian pay if I am deployed.

Unsures:
- Questions I posted earlier in initial post above
- Comaradarie mostly because I'm not familiar with how AF Os and Es interact, especially in a flight crew. In the Infantry, respect is a two way street and I get along well with all our Os and SNCOs. I work well in a team and can take orders, I can take jokes, and I can make decisions, but I don't do well with micromanagers or being talked down to.
- Usefulness of the FE certificate itself, but as granlistillo pointed out, 500 hrs of it does count toward the ATP (which is a plus)
- Whether I would be better of as FE or UAS Operator. (I'm kinda leaning toward FE though)
- Age cutoff
- Speed of promotion
- Difficulty of school (I'm betting it's a ball buster) and pass/fail rate
- What happens if I am a NO GO? Recycle? Go to the needs of the AF? Can I transfer back to the Army if I bolo FE school?
I am sure you got my PM, but after reading your post, I see there are a couple of questions I neglected to answer.

The schools are pretty intense, but it's nothing that you *should* have issues with being a ME rated pilot. I tell guys that are here to spend more time in the books than down at the river getting sloshed and you'll be OK. The pass rate out of the formal school is almost 100%...as for the follow on training at your unit, from what I remember, you might lose 1 out of 20. I would guess the odds of passing for you is nearly 100%.

The "workings" of the crew are just that. There isn't rank on the flightdeck, since this is inherently bad for CRM. Of course if you are flying with an O-6, you may not tell the story about what happened the night before with the same "details" as if you were flying with a couple of O-3s or O-4s! In the guard and reserve, the boundry between Os and Es is even less than the AD folks. It's very common for the members of the squadrons to be good friends, whether E's or O's. Oddly enough, in the AD world, there was always more "friction" between the wives than with the squadron members. Keep in mind, that you live with these guys (and gals) for days at a time, so it's pretty easy to keep it friendly...probably A LOT different than what you are used to in the ARNG. Those that "talk down" to crew members get beat down pretty quick. On occasion, we get a pilot (or FE) that has come from another service and want to "pull the rank card" or just "be the boss". They usually learn VERY QUICKLY that it is a crew airplane an if they want the mission to run smoothly, the'll slow thier roll. This is very uncommon though.

Age cutoff...nope. Not an issue at all, since you are a prior service guy.

The "Gran" already answered about the FE ticket and time towards the ATP...the only issue right now is finding a DPE (or DFEE?!?) that can give checkrides in the C-5. There was a guy up in Dover and we may have one soon down here, but not sure about Wright-Patt.

Promotions...not too bad in the guard and reserve. I'm not sure what rank you are now, but you will be an E-4 at minimum and will be up to E-6 within a couple to 3 years. E-7 is pretty much a give me too...it's the E-8 and E-9 slots that are hard to come by.
 
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