IPC in a non instrument rated plane?

jtrain609

jtrain609

Antisocial Monster
Heya everyone,


Maybe one of the CFII's here can answer this one. Is it possible to get an instrument proficency check in an airplane that is not certified for instrument flight, but has all the correct instruments? What I am talking about specifically, is a Cessna 152 that is not certified for flight into IMC, but has all the requirements of an instrument rated plane as far as instruments and avionics go?

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 
What makes the airplane not certifiable for instrument flight if all the required instruments and avionics are there?

If indeed you have all the required equipment to navigate and shoot approaches I would do the IPC but not in IMC.
 
That was my thinking, but I didn't know if there was some part of the FAR's that I was wasn't thinking of that would prevent this. Obviously we couldn't get into IMC, but we could go and log simulated instrument time and do an IPC and whatnot.

BTW How's the job and wife? Getting many hours?

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 
I was just checking the other day with a DPE on whether the plane used for a CFII exam needed to be IFR certified, and he said no. As long as the plane is equipped to do all of the required Tasks, certification is not required. I would think that the same logic would apply to an IPC.

<Sorry. Used the word logic when referring to FAA stuff. My bad.>
 
I'm not aware of any reg that says you can't do IPC in a non-IMC rated airplane. If you have all the required instruments, I say knock yourself out and do it, but not in IMC.

Anyhow, the job is going great!! I have about 900 TT now. THe great thing about out here is the actual time. I've gotten a lot of hours in IMC since I've been here. No multi time in sight yet but hopefully that will change in the approaching months. Christina is doing great and has found a full time job. One of our guys got hired by Cape Air the other day so the moral around here is higher. Keep me updated how your flying is coming along.....
 
I don't get it. What constitutes an Instrument rated airplane? If an airplane has all of the required equipment why wouldn't it be certified for IFR flight?
 
Because there are some airframe certifications that need to be completed to fly in the clouds that some aircraft don't have.
 
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I don't get it. What constitutes an Instrument rated airplane? If an airplane has all of the required equipment why wouldn't it be certified for IFR flight?

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As an example, I talked to a DPE about using a Diamond Eclipse for someone getting a CFII. The Eclipse has all the required instruments, radios, etc., but it does not have the mesh in the wings that the Diamond Star has for lightning disappation (I think that's what it was, anyway). So the Eclipse has all the goodies to enable you to perform all of the Tasks in the Practical Test Standards, but it has not been approved (by the FAA) for IFR flight. Most likely it was a cost issue for Diamond, since the Eclipse is a two seat trainer they didn't see the necessity to add cost to get the IFR certification.
 
What kind of airframe requirements? Is if related to structural integrity? Is there a minimum load requirement?
 
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I don't get it. What constitutes an Instrument rated airplane? If an airplane has all of the required equipment why wouldn't it be certified for IFR flight?

[/ QUOTE ]Regardless of the avionics installed, Part 23 includes the "kinds of operations" that an airplane might be certified for. For example, FAR 23.1525 tells us
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The kinds of operation authorized (e.g. VFR, IFR, day or night) and the meteorological conditions (e.g. icing) to which the operation of the airplane is limited or from which it is prohibited, must be established appropriate to the installed equipment.
==============================

The analysis isn't limited to whether the airplane has the right avionics, but

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The design of each item of equipment, each system, and each installation must be examined separately and in relationship to other airplane systems and installations to determine if the airplane is dependent upon its function for continued safe flight and landing and, for airplanes not limited to VFR conditions, if failure of a system would significantly reduce the capability of the airplane or the ability of the crew to cope with adverse operating conditions. FAR 23.1309(b)
==============================

It happens for various reasons. For example, the Katana/Eclipse DA-20 is not certified for IFR flight because of static discharge issues, even though it's better =equipped= for IFR flight than the ancient 172 that is.

(And, to join the other answers to the original question, yes, and airplane not certified for IFR flight can be used can be used for IFR training and IPCs under VFR.)
 
Well, seeing as how you could do an IPC (or even your CFII) in a sim, I don't see how flying it under simulated IFR would be any different. I doubt of the sim is rated to fly in IMC since it has no wings or an engine.
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I think you could do the IPC in such an aircraft, as long as you have the required equipment to do the check. I would guess the reason the plane isn't legal for IFR is lack of a current pitot/static check.
 
It's actually not even an issue now. The deal is that I'm about to join a flying club, and you can enter into different segments of it. The web page is below. I was originally going to join the 152 portion, but I've decided against it so I can go get some actual instrument time in with their 172's/Warrior's. The other thing that's driving me is that I REALLY hate 152's, squirrly little mini-planes I tell ya.

Thanks for your help guys!

http://www.dodgenaircraft.com/fbo_club.html

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 
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The other thing that's driving me is that I REALLY hate 152's, squirrly little mini-planes I tell ya.

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But oh so easy to land....just try to sit on the runway!!!!
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That's the hardest part about flying those things! I can't land them for crap, they're too squirrly if there's like 0.5 knots of wind
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[ QUOTE ]
Well, seeing as how you could do an IPC (or even your CFII) in a sim, I don't see how flying it under simulated IFR would be any different.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not. You =can= do instrument training and an IPC in simulated instrument conditions an airplane that is nor\t certified for IFR flight.
 
[ QUOTE ]
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Well, seeing as how you could do an IPC (or even your CFII) in a sim, I don't see how flying it under simulated IFR would be any different.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not. You =can= do instrument training and an IPC in simulated instrument conditions an airplane that is nor\t certified for IFR flight.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are exactly correct. I have over 1,200 hours of instrument instruction given in helicopters. The helicopter we used was not IFR Certified, but it WAS IFR Equipped. Therein lies the difference. That, and the fact that a Single Pilot IFR Certified Helicopter would cost about a million bucks more than the one in which I was instructing.

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