Interesting info out of N90

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Here is an example to show the type of trainees that we are receiving at my facility (NY TRACON LGA Sector).

We just received a batch of 4 new trainees --- a bunch of young guys with absolutely no experience right off the street or with some type of aviation college degree/certificat - what have you.

Keep in mind these trainees have already spent 3 months in OKC learning ATC!!!

The instructor of this Fab. 4 spent at least 20 mins the other day trying to explain how a runway is designated a number!!! (via magnetic Hdg)--- and some of them still didn't get it. ----Usually this subject would never be taught (your at the freakin NY TRACON - you should know how a runway number is determined) --- but these guys are absolutely clueless

We are definately reaching rock bottom with candidates to do this job.
 

Zeppelinpilot

New Member
When I took a tour of N90, I was told the exact same thing. I really couldn't believe it.

When I was there, two training classes had just ended the week before.
They said that of a class of 5 for the EWR area, only 2 passed.
And of a class of 3 for the LGA area, only 1 passed.
 

Trident

New Member
You mean runways have numbers and you are atcually assigned to one? I just thought you picked the one that didnt have any traffic on it. :sarcasm:

WOW...I need to keep up on things
 

slayer

Well-Known Member
20 minutes to explain it and they still didn't get it! WOW! The concept is not hard to understand.
 

FM_Weasel

Well-Known Member
While I agree it's an incredibly easy to understand concept, it makes me wonder what innocuous thing I'm gonna get stuck on while training that's gonna make all the vets talk about how dumb I am.
 

AFTOFAAATC

New Member
While I agree it's an incredibly easy to understand concept, it makes me wonder what innocuous thing I'm gonna get stuck on while training that's gonna make all the vets talk about how dumb I am.
Just wait. It is called a tough and unforgiving crowd.
 

MstngPilot

New Member
That is a toughy to understand. But I know that I am headed to N90 soon (just finishing up the hiring process). I think I will be good to go there. I was a controller at Nellis AFB for 4 years, plus I am a CFI, CFII, MEI with 1800 hours in the air. I am looking forward to it and can't wait to help out in the facility. I will also try my best to make sure everyone I am paired with makes it too.

~JP

PS - Sorry if that sounded cocky, just eager to get rated (even though it usually takes an unGodly amount of time!)
 

dpiatek

New Member
I don't believe it. Unless they had really #####ty instructors, that was one of the things covered the first week at the academy in basics. I should know, I just finished mine.. We took our first block test last Monday and the class average on the material was a 91. I guess they could just be moronic but most of the individuals I've come in contact with are pretty bright here. I'm OTS myself and can definitely say I'm learning lots. Just trying to absorb as much as I can so I can apply it down the line.
 

propcircles

New Member
Keep in mind these trainees have already spent 3 months in OKC learning ATC!!!

The instructor of this Fab. 4 spent at least 20 mins the other day trying to explain how a runway is designated a number!!! (via magnetic Hdg)--- and some of them still didn't get it. ----Usually this subject would never be taught (your at the freakin NY TRACON - you should know how a runway number is determined) --- but these guys are absolutely clueless


exaggeration, at best. . .
 

Zeppelinpilot

New Member
exaggeration, at best. . .
Look, I can't tell you for sure what did or did not happen. But when I was there, speaking to someone who worked in the training department, I was told that a (singular) student who had graduated from OKC:

"did not know what the numbers on the runways meant"

Don't know anything about a 20 min lesson resulting in the student(s) still not understanding it.

But one way or another, this must be very frustrating for all involved.
 

HonuPineapple

New Member
And Honu, is there more to the TEB story... can I read about it somewhere?
That's all I know. I heard it through the TEB corporate pilot grapevine.

Word is that a controller cleared the plane to land as some guys were putting the X on the runway. The pilots didn't double check the clearance, but I'm not clear on whether they could see the X or not, so that may not be their fault. Definitely a mistake on the controller's part. Sounds like it was just one guy who made the mistake at the tower. He got fired.

I don't have any sources in print to verify this. As I said, heard it though the rumor mill. The folks who told me were justthisclose to banging their heads on the wall at the stupidity of the controller.
 

chichi

New Member
That's all I know. I heard it through the TEB corporate pilot grapevine.

Word is that a controller cleared the plane to land as some guys were putting the X on the runway. The pilots didn't double check the clearance, but I'm not clear on whether they could see the X or not, so that may not be their fault. Definitely a mistake on the controller's part. Sounds like it was just one guy who made the mistake at the tower. He got fired.

I don't have any sources in print to verify this. As I said, heard it though the rumor mill. The folks who told me were justthisclose to banging their heads on the wall at the stupidity of the controller.
UpstateNY posted a link to the Star Ledger story a few posts up... it doesn't mention the controller being fired (though I can see that being true) and the FAA is saying he was a "fully certified controller"
 
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