Insurance

J

jikky54

New Member
A jobless instructor looking for options...

I have access to a 172 that's completely uninsured. I was thinking about having students get full coverage on it before they solo. I've known people who've bought airplanes before they were licensed before so I know they can get insured, but i was wondering. Have any of y'all ever seen the rates for people in training for insurance on an old '73 172 for around $25,000 in coverage?
 
jikky54 said:
A jobless instructor looking for options...

I have access to a 172 that's completely uninsured. I was thinking about having students get full coverage on it before they solo. I've known people who've bought airplanes before they were licensed before so I know they can get insured, but i was wondering. Have any of y'all ever seen the rates for people in training for insurance on an old '73 172 for around $25,000 in coverage?
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If you can't insure it how on earth are you going to pay for the MX? Even if you're an A&P IA you still have to buy parts that get really expensive really quickly.

Students will break things, what will you do then? How will you comply with the 100hr inspections?

If I were you I'd probably just find an FBO and just freelance.

And for the insurance you're talking about it will cost you about $5,000 per year.
 
esa17 said:
If you can't insure it how on earth are you going to pay for the MX? Even if you're an A&P IA you still have to buy parts that get really expensive really quickly.

Students will break things, what will you do then? How will you comply with the 100hr inspections?

If I were you I'd probably just find an FBO and just freelance.

And for the insurance you're talking about it will cost you about $5,000 per year.
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I spoke with the insurance company and got a quote through AIG. For a non-owner policy, students can insure themselves for $559/year. For me to get a flight instruction policy with coverage on the airplane it's $4500/year. I believe I'll just have students bind their own policy and pay $46/month and that will take care of that.

The airplane i have access to is well maintained. And will continue to keep it well maintained. the guy that owns it just does'nt have it insured. He said i could use it for flight instruction without insurance, but i don't think i can do that and sleep at night.
 
Insurance - a "renter's" policy will not protect you in any way. It protects the renter. As my agent explained it, it will not even pay for damages caused by the student unless the owner sues - and wins. Then the policy covers the student. What if you're in the aircraft also? Then YOU could be held liable. Better talk to a good and knowledgeable agent. Also, renter's policies do not protect you as instructor in the event there is any liability issues. Get a policy to protect yourself, even if you don't opt for the aircraft coverage.

Also, insurance is just one consideration. Be very careful regarding the "for hire" use of the aircraft. If you use the aircraft for instruction, then it needs 100 hr inspections.
 
If you are providing the aircraft, you should get your own insurance. If you can't afford it, you need to raise your rates or do something else with the plane. If something happens, there will be lawsuits and you will be broke before you know it.
 
escapepilot said:
Insurance - a "renter's" policy will not protect you in any way. It protects the renter. As my agent explained it, it will not even pay for damages caused by the student unless the owner sues - and wins. Then the policy covers the student. What if you're in the aircraft also? Then YOU could be held liable. Better talk to a good and knowledgeable agent. Also, renter's policies do not protect you as instructor in the event there is any liability issues. Get a policy to protect yourself, even if you don't opt for the aircraft coverage.

Also, insurance is just one consideration. Be very careful regarding the "for hire" use of the aircraft. If you use the aircraft for instruction, then it needs 100 hr inspections.
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the agent i spoke to said it would cover damage to the aircraft, and he said it over and over. I will also get the $200 CFI liability insurance through AOPA. I think that will suffice.
 
That seems ridiculously low. We were paying over $5k to insure our 172 before we got rid of it. I know the owners we had leasebacks with were paying that if not more.

So if I understand this:
Every student has to get a $600 policy to cover damage to the plane while they're flying it.

You need your own $200 policy to cover you when flight instructing.

Is that it?

That just doesn't seem right, from having paid ridiculous amounts for insurance.

-mini
 
5000 for insurance? were you using it for instruction? our cherokee is only around $600 for the year including ground and flight coverage at a hull value of 30,000
 
Jbroz04 said:
5000 for insurance? were you using it for instruction? our cherokee is only around $600 for the year including ground and flight coverage at a hull value of 30,000
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Is that for commercial or private insurance? Once you get insurance for flight instruction, the cost goes WAY up.
 
Jbroz04 said:
5000 for insurance? were you using it for instruction? our cherokee is only around $600 for the year including ground and flight coverage at a hull value of 30,000
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Yeah it was the first bird on our 141 certificate. After we got a few leasebacks we said "seeyaaaa".

You should have seen what we paid for our first twin to insure it for instruction and rental (solo). Yikes x12. As soon as we got rid of those costs, I slept better at night.

-mini
 
yeah, it's cheaper for everybody involved if the student binds his own policy. For non-owned aircraft policy liability and hull is only around $600 for $25,000 of coverage.
 
Do you know if they'll do twins too? Long ago, I had to get a rental policy for myself and they made it very clear they did NOT do these policies for twins. Curious minds.

-mini
 
The only problem now is that a student's intro flight will cost him $699 just to see if he likes flying. Or you'll have to send him to a $99 competitor and hope that he comes back. Is there some reason you can't just work for an FBO? It sure would save yourself a lot of trouble.
 
Nihon_Ni said:
The only problem now is that a student's intro flight will cost him $699 just to see if he likes flying. Or you'll have to send him to a $99 competitor and hope that he comes back. Is there some reason you can't just work for an FBO? It sure would save yourself a lot of trouble.
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Why? Is he going to fly solo on this discovery flight? I'd assume the instructor would be covered as the PIC in the plane during the discovery flight.

-mini
 
The cost of insurance shouldn't run you more than $3,500 for the hull and liability. What you should do is insure your airplane yourself. The renters policy is an excess policy. Most of the time its not even worth it for the insurance companies to subrogate against the renter. It costs them to much time and money to recover a few dollars. The biggest and most important coverage for a CFI to have is a products coverage. You're providing a service and a product to the student and if something happens to the student and they have a good lawyer you could be in trouble.
 
minitour said:
Why? Is he going to fly solo on this discovery flight? I'd assume the instructor would be covered as the PIC in the plane during the discovery flight.

-mini
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What's to keep someone from suing both the CFI and the student in the event something happens? Sure, the CFI would be covered, but I doubt his coverage would extend to the student.
 
Nihon_Ni said:
What's to keep someone from suing both the CFI and the student in the event something happens? Sure, the CFI would be covered, but I doubt his coverage would extend to the student.
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Interesting point. Anyone got one of these CFI policies to see if it covers the student during dual flights?

-mini
 
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