Instrument procedures

Cessnaflyer said:
Not to be mean but you are a CFII and don't know that? Did you ever do an arc in training?
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You can have an arc on a procedure that still has a PT. (I've seen one, but I can't remember where....)

The first time I saw a straight-in only ILS was after I started flying 121.

Straight-in ILS: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0904/06039IL17C.PDF:
06039IL17C.PDF


06039IL17C.PDF
 
Polar742 said:
You can have an arc on a procedure that still has a PT.

The first time I saw a straight-in only ILS was after I started flying 121.
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I know that, but an arc is a pretty big part of learning how to fly an approach. I couldn't imagine being thrown into one without having to practice or demonstrate the ability to do it.

http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0904/00641IY12.PDF

Approaches are made with tight tollerances and if you began to get overwhelmed you can easily make some contract with the hills in the area.

youngflyer said:
Would you rather he didn't ask the question and never know? Just sayin'.:o
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It's always good to ask questions but I'm just surprised it hasn't come up with two instrument checkrides
 
Cessnaflyer said:
I know that, but an arc is a pretty big part of learning how to fly an approach. I couldn't imagine being thrown into one without having to practice or demonstrate the ability to do it.
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Whoah, hold on. I don't think he ever said he'd never done an arc. The original post was just asking if ALL approaches have either a PT or a holding pattern. It's a legit question, depending where he flies, he might not have run across an approach that has neither of those.

Here's one with no PT and no hold-in-lieu...
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0904/05537VDA.PDF
And another...
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0904/05537R35.PDF
And yet another.
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0904/05457R35L.PDF

Polar742 said:
You can have an arc on a procedure that still has a PT. (I've seen one, but I can't remember where....)
06039IL17C.PDF
Click to expand...
You mean like this one?
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0904/00807IL13.PDF
Or perhaps this one...
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0904/00807VDT13.PDF
 
Cessnaflyer said:
I know that, but an arc is a pretty big part of learning how to fly an approach. I couldn't imagine being thrown into one without having to practice or demonstrate the ability to do it.

http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0904/00641IY12.PDF

Approaches are made with tight tollerances and if you began to get overwhelmed you can easily make some contract with the hills in the area.
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Trust me, I'm well aware. Don't bag on a guy though because he hasn't had the opportunity to see one.

If you don't know what you're missing, how do you know to ask?
 
Roger said:
Whoah, hold on. I don't think he ever said he'd never done an arc. The original post was just asking if ALL approaches have either a PT or a holding pattern. It's a legit question, depending where he flies, he might not have run across an approach that has neither of those.
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I agree. Cessnaflyer jumped to the conclusion (perhaps prematurely) that popaviator has never flown an arc. It was a legit question with a simple answer. How he knows, and knowing is half the battle............

-mini
 
Roger said:
Whoah, hold on. I don't think he ever said he'd never done an arc. The original post was just asking if ALL approaches have either a PT or a holding pattern. It's a legit question, depending where he flies, he might not have run across an approach that has neither of those.

Here's one with no PT and no hold-in-lieu...
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0904/05537VDA.PDF
Click to expand...

I guess the way I read it made me think that since he didn't reference it, he probably didn't know about it.

"Assume makes an... :) "

Polar742 said:
Trust me, I'm well aware. Don't bag on a guy though because he hasn't had the opportunity to see one.

If you don't know what you're missing, how do you know to ask?
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I guess I was lucky with my training and we went over so many approach charts from all over the country and world.
 
Come on guys, I can guarantee there is SOMETHING each of us don't know about IFR flight, instructor or otherwise. I'd hate to fly with somebody who thinks otherwise.
 
:yeahthat:


As far as the question is concerned not every approach will have a PT. As far as a hold is concerned I would think most all would. ATC needs to send you somewhere if they're are busy to keep you out of everyone's way in my opinion when you go missed. I have never seen anything in a text anywhere to state all approaches will have a hold. I have never seen one that didn't but then again I have also never looked at every approach out there.

Also I am guessing you are not referring to a hold in lieu of a PT.
 
jake.durham said:
:yeahthat:


As far as the question is concerned not every approach will have a PT. As far as a hold is concerned I would think most all would. ATC needs to send you somewhere if there are busy to keep you out of everyone's way in my opinion. I have never seen anything in a text anywhere to state all approaches will have a hold. I have never seen one that didn't but then again I have also never looked at every approach out there.
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I've seen a few that just fly out towards a fix with no hold...usually big busy airports, as I recall
 
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