Instructor Ratings

A

airbuspilot

New Member
I am trying to decide which flight school to go to. Was looking at All ATP but they seem to be a bit more expensive. Can anyone give me any feed back as to why i should or should not look into Aviator?

Thanks
 
The schools you are looking at are not the greatest for doing instructor ratings. ATP will get you done with all the ratings in a month. Whether they will have learned anything other than how to pass some checkrides is a different matter. As for Aviator, this would probably be a bad choice for doing instructor ratings, especially with regard to an initial rating. The instructor course is a constant source of frustration for most students. The root cause of the problem is that the greedy owner of the school is unable to recruit two year CFI's to do the initial instructor rating. This is because although you are charged a lot of money for ground training the CFI will not get paid. Your instructor will give you almost no ground and the process takes forever and you will probably bust the rating. Some of my buddies have been working on their initial CFI for nearly six months. Factor in the living costs and you will have spent MUCH more than you would at ATP. For the Aviator Pro course guys this may prove to be worth the trouble because of the opportunity of a job afterwards. However there is no way they will employ you if you just do the instructor ratings. You may want to read some of the other threads in the Aviator forum to get a better feel for the place.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but this is the way things are around here. Take your CFI at a place that will offer you employment afterwards. Maybe somewhere with a twin or related to a 135 operation.
 
accelerated program - travel to CT?

I did my CFI initial and instrument add-on with a very seasoned instructor in Connecticut - I had to do major self study before starting, not to mention during the training, but we finished both tickets in 8 days, full time flying 3-4 lessons a day, and ground in-between. If you're interested you can check out his website (check out his resume, you're not going to find many CFIs out there with his credentials) www.pilotrating.com
 
Florida_flyer

It Doesn't Matter Where You Go, Instructor Ratings Require
A Lot Of Self Study And Self Motivation. Maybe Aviator Should
Start Hiring Outside Instructors. That Why You Would Have
More To Complain About When Someone Else Has Taken Your
Job! By The Way, Most Decent 2 Year Cfi's Are Already Working
In The Airline Industry!!
 
Look two forums down.

Dont mean to step on anybodys toes but Skymates has an excellent CFI course with great CFI instructors.
 
I'm Afraid Florida Flyer Is Right Again

Floridaflyer is right to point out the unseen cost of the Aviator's Instructor programs.. most people seem to take about 5-6 months preparing for it.. why, I don't know. Even the guys coming across with JAA ATPL theory seemed to take ages (?!!).. the reason is.. there is NO support system in place.. there is NO ONE to check how you are getting along or any form of program monitoring.. the plane fact is if they're running short of instructors they will magically get you done in a month or so, but if everything is cool, you may as well stay where you are.. and keep paying that rent baby!

We should start a score board for all the instructors and 'furniture' at the school right now who took/are taking more than six months to complete what is essentially (from a JAA perspective) a pub quiz. It's not a professional training organisation, it's a poorly run retirement machine for an angry old Texan.. you're on your own.

If you're looking for somewhere to get your FAA Instructor ratings done, I suggest one of the schools that puts emphasis on a definate timeline - it suggests they have the organisational skills (and more importantly, the will) required to pull it off, and make you Number One when you need it. If you turn up for a walkaround in Fort Pierce, after you've stepped over the ironic doormat, ask your new best friend how he's going to make sure you get done in six months? It ain't gonna happen, he may even come up with the old "of course, it comes down to you" BS that catches everyone out. Ask him about the bit that comes down to him (fleet unreliability, a shifting schedule, groundschool obligations etc).

The time and MONEY you WILL save getting it done quicker elsewhere will more than pay for the course price difference, and may even buy you a chunk of multi eng time building somewhere (safer) else. It's definately something to think about. Blind optimism is not a Command quality.

I wish I could come on here and fill in the blanks a bit more often, but tad busy at mo. But I like hearing the news.. I hear my friend A------ is just leaving, after taking just under 3 (THREE) months to get his Private done. And Instructor Phil has just got back to England, after he was fired for commenting privately that a certain Duchess was 'a heap of junk'.. (my boss loved that one), keep up the good work!! back soon
:bandit:


www.aviatorlibrary.info - wahey!! remember this old chesnut.
_________________
The Spin Didn't Stop There
 
Thank you Rich and RyanmickG for your constructive posts. There are schools out there that will take an interest in your needs. That means experienced and motivated instructors, who have an interest in getting you through your training smoothly. I'm considering other options for my CFI ratings. Everything Welsh Chris says is true I'm afraid. Aviator has always been and will probably always be badly run.

A representative of the school contacted me today on this forum suggesting that I be man enough to come forward to discuss my problems. I know that if I did this I'd be taken straight into MC's office, abused and thrown out of the school. This has happened to people before. It doesn't give me any satisfaction to make all these negative posts. However, the management are reading this and there may be some changes. Then again, maybe not.

What DOTDASH says about the shortage of two year CFI's is true. There are few career CFI's around. However, six months ago one arrived at Aviator from PanAm wanting a job. As the previous two year CFI had just been fired they hired her. This instructor was an experienced gold seal CFI who specialised in doing CFI's. Okay, she had no serious multi but there was still much promise. Surely Aviator would do it's best to keep her? Several months down the line she had done a few CFI's. However, I heard she refused to do the ground classes because they wanted to pay ten lousy bucks per hour; the same that Mike pays for cleaning the toilets. Recently, after MC fired her and rehired her multiple times she decided to get out of the whole embarassing mess for good. And MC wonders why he cannot retain and motivate two year CFI's. I don't think I could ever work for MC myself, seeing how he treats his people. I'm looking at other options for my training but as I have spent far too much money at this school already, it's hard to pull out now. Aviator is not a terrible place for timebuilding, multi ratings, instrument and the MEI add on. Anything else though, BUYER BEWARE!
 
JHC!

OK look you can find bad things about anything if you choose to look hard enough. I guess it is so much easier to post the negatives than the positives. most people go to the aviator and get there ratings done instruct and move on with an airline job. they don't come on jetcareers and find a need to bash everything they dont like.

look I have read enough of this crap it makes me sick. man i am not sure what you guys did to have this terror or idea that mike is this bad angry man. I have made joke to his face at his own expense, none meant to be taken seriously, and you know what he does? He laughs and cuts up.

I have seen him get angry a few times but in the end it was called for. Not once has he ever yelled at me or asked me to do something that is just not fair.

Man guys, wait until you get into the real world and you have jerks that you have to call your boss that make just a little more money than you do yelling and talking down to you.

Bottom line with the Aviator is if you do your job you are fine! IUf you screw worund you will take more time to get your ratings done. I had guys in my instrument ground course get all there instructor ratings done in a couple months. Some went longer. I would not have taken so long had I not helped Mike do a ground class. I was happy to get payed ten bucks an hour while I was studying for other things.

Guys lighten up, if these little BS hold ups are causing this much turmoil in your lives maybe you should look at becoming a door greeter at Walmart?
 
First of all, I would like to thank those of you that had constructive things to offer regarding the school. However, it sounds like I might just have to come and tour the school for myself as it seems that some of the students there may be a little bit immature in the way that they choose to handle their own training. I was talking with some students who went threw the instructor courses at ATP and it was a crash course just enough to pass the check ride. Who in their right mind would want to get a crash course in being an instructor, I would think that it would be well worth the money to take a bit longer and feel like you actually learned something that you could pass onto new students. It is a HUGE responsibility becoming a flight instructor and I know when it comes down to it I am going to choose the school where I feel that i will be able to go at my own pace and retain as much knowledge as possible.
 
Galil said:
Bottom line with the Aviator is if you do your job you are fine! IUf you screw worund you will take more time to get your ratings done.
Click to expand...

If someone is screwing around, fine. However, if a school is dragging their feet or isn't willing to go the extra mile to keep a good quality instructor for CFI courses, then that is not the students' fault. Until you get hired as an instructor at a school, you should be treated as a paying customer. If you aren't getting the product that was promised when you started, then you should certainly be within your rights to take your money elsewhere. Sometimes, it might be worth it to cut losses and move on if things have been stagnant for several months.
 
florida flyer

HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THAT THE SCHOOL WAS IN SCHAMBLES FOR
THE BETTER PART OF A YEAR AFTER HURRICANE FRANCIS & JEANNE!
BUT, MIKE KEPT THE SCHOOL OPEN AND RUNNING TRYING HIS BEST TO
GET THE SCHOOL REBUILT FOR "YOU" YES, AND OF COURSE IT WAS
UNORGANIZED, BARELY A ROOF OVER OUR HEADS. DID YOU EVER OFFER
TO HELP?....QUITE HONESTLY I DOUBT. HOWEVER, AVIATOR IS NOW
GETTING BACK ON TRACK TO THE CREDIT OF MIKE. IT SEEMS TO ME
THAT IF YOU WERE A "MAN" YOU WOULD COME DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE
AND AIR YOUR GRIPS. HIDING BEHIND THE COMPUTER IS EASY AND IT
SEEMS TO ME YOU TAKE THE "EASY" WAY OUT. I PERSONALLY WOULDN'T
TRUST YOU IF YOU WERE STANDING IN FRONT OF ME!:confused:
 
The way you make it sound DOTDASH, is that MC runs aviator along the lines of a registered charity; kinda like the Red Cross. Let me tell you now, MC is a hard headed businessman who is running the show for profit.

The school was not repaired because he is a good guy; MC was just getting tired of potential customers seeing the scene of devastation and taking their 30K to ATP instead. Like most students I never complained about the damage to the building, having no WX and needing to do my ground in the Tiki or outside. This was not MC's fault, just an act of God. Having said that did anyone else see MC working on the building himself? The only thing that I ever noticed was MC shouting at his little slave labor army. These guys had run out of training money because of the hurricanes and MC was paying them ten bucks per hour to fix the building. Being a hard headed businessman (not a charity) MC knew that half of their pay check would return in the form of rent and some would go in the flying account. Not exactly charitable huh?

DOTDASH blames the poor organization of Aviator on the hurricanes and MC concentrating on rebuilding the school. Around the time I appeared on the scene, I kept hearing rumors that Mike was setting up a 135 operation; even that he had brought a load of beaten up Cheyenne turboprops. That was where MC's attention was, not on fixing the building so that you and me didn't have to do ground in the sun. Whatever happened to Aviator 135?

When all is said and done, all that I am asking for is that the deficiencies in the initial CFI rating that Welsh Chris pointed out be addressed. It would be nice to have an open reply in this thread from Aviator management, saying what the plans are for getting guys through. However these guys need to accept there is something wrong and this is not one of their strong points!
 
ryanmickG said:
Look two forums down.

Dont mean to step on anybodys toes but Skymates has an excellent CFI course with great CFI instructors.
Click to expand...

Party Foul

Do NOT cannibalise other advertisers.
 
heres the deal with MC. He is a buisness man who has A LOT to deal with during the day, you have to know what your going to say and how your going to say it with Mike. Dont just barge in his office and complain about something with nothing to support or back it up with. I do agree that he gets a little hotheaded sometimes but you would to if you had to put up with all the crap he puts up with. I have known Mike for quite awhile now and I know him to be a caring honest man if you handle situations like an ADULT! instead of coming on here to cry about all the negatives in the school go to mike with a VALID problem(s) and resolve it the mature way!
 
florida flyer

All I can say is you sound like one scarey dude! I know I wouldn't
want to fly with you! I think Aviator would be glad to see you leave.
Why don't you just go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:argue:
 
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