Instability at Endeavor

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airdave37130

Well-Known Member
Has anyone heard of any troubles at Endeavor. I have heard that schedules for most employees have been deleted after May. Here's to hoping that is not true!!!! that would leave only Skywest, Mesa, Air Wisconsin, GoJet, Republic, Express Jet, and Envoy,PSA, and Piedmont.

Your thoughts...and go
Dave
 
I’d imagine they don’t know what is going on with the stimulus yet. If they don’t get it, I’m sure the cuts are coming, just like everywhere.

They just voted their union out last year, and as someone here said, you don’t need a union for the good times, you need them for the bad times.

That being said I’m getting almost daily bragging messages from someone there about how much flying they’re taking from Skywest, so who knows. Personally I don’t think Delta is short sighted enough to steal so much flying from their limited partners that it would put them in danger, but judging by how little DL Connection flights there are, it could be a decision of necessity.
 
Didn't Delta put in for the grant? That should include Endeavor if I am not mistaken. So no cuts at least for a little bit. Makes sense with how the majors are changing flights so often that they would build stuff month-to-month as well.
 
Air Wisconsin has been around for a long time, but United has expressed a desire in this current climate to get rid of 50-seat jets...which is all that ZW flies. So, it will be interesting to see what happens there. I wish all my former colleagues there the best. I'd love to see them get some new aircraft! Perhaps they could trade in their fleet for some of the new CRJ-550s....which are still 50-seaters, but much more comfortable for passengers.
 
manniax said:
Air Wisconsin has been around for a long time, but United has expressed a desire in this current climate to get rid of 50-seat jets...which is all that ZW flies. So, it will be interesting to see what happens there. I wish all my former colleagues there the best. I'd love to see them get some new aircraft! Perhaps they could trade in their fleet for some of the new CRJ-550s....which are still 50-seaters, but much more comfortable for passengers.
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If the 50 seat market takes a bigger hit from this then we could see several regionals fold. I'm a little surprised by the outlook on the 50 seaters though with cheap fuel right now and how much cheaper it is to run them with a light load factor.
 
paincorp said:
I’d imagine they don’t know what is going on with the stimulus yet. If they don’t get it, I’m sure the cuts are coming, just like everywhere.

They just voted their union out last year, and as someone here said, you don’t need a union for the good times, you need them for the bad times.

That being said I’m getting almost daily bragging messages from someone there about how much flying they’re taking from Skywest, so who knows. Personally I don’t think Delta is short sighted enough to steal so much flying from their limited partners that it would put them in danger, but judging by how little DL Connection flights there are, it could be a decision of necessity.
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Although things suck industry wide, the Holy Regional Air Service is doing fine right now, maybe even better than some of the union shops.

Endeavor isn't "stealing" anything. The OO ATL hub was likely going to close after LGA did as Delta moved SkyWest operations back west (LAX/SEA/SLC/MSP) and Endeavor took over ATL. This was known before COVID was a thing, the virus just accelerated it so now Endeavor has those ATL flights. They may also have some of the LGA flights too, or Republic does, but all of that was planned to happen before the virus shook things up.
 
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airdave37130 said:
Has anyone heard of any troubles at Endeavor. I have heard that schedules for most employees have been deleted after May. Here's to hoping that is not true!!!! that would leave only Skywest, Mesa, Air Wisconsin, GoJet, Republic, Express Jet, and Envoy,PSA, and Piedmont.

Your thoughts...and go
Dave
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Endeavor is doing similar to I imagine most other airlines. Huge reduction to flying and trying to save money. Schedules have not really been deleted... A lot of dispatchers took Voluntary Leave of Absence so they have to do a new bid every month until things get back to normal since we have a new amount of dispatchers working every month. The training class is finishing up OE right now. Endeavor is included with Delta for the CARES act, so our jobs should be safe till the end of September.
 
flynryan692 said:
Although things suck industry wide, the Holy Regional Air Service is doing fine right now, maybe even better than some of the union shops.

Endeavor isn't "stealing" anything. The OO ATL hub was likely going to close after LGA did as Delta moved SkyWest operations back west (LAX/SEA/SLC/MSP) and Endeavor took over ATL. This was known before COVID was a thing, the virus just accelerated it so now Endeavor has those ATL flights. They may also have some of the LGA flights too, or Republic does, but all of that was planned to happen before the virus shook things up.
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I can promise you every union group is light years better off than any non union group right now.
 
Wonderlic said:
I can promise you every union group is light years better off than any non union group right now.
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That may or may not be true. Let's keep the union talk off this thread. Endeavor voting the union out is their decision and let's let that be them. Only time will tell what will happen to them or other union and non-union shops.
 
FlyingSioux1 said:
That may or may not be true. Let's keep the union talk off this thread. Endeavor voting the union out is their decision and let's let that be them. Only time will tell what will happen to them or other union and non-union shops.
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Actually, this is a unionized profession so I think it’s a perfect time to remind people in our industry about the importance of unions. When Oct comes, if demand hasn’t drastically increased, Union or not, people will be furloughed. But, at least those in union shops will be furloughed with already agreed upon conditions in our contracts. And when demand does pick back up (and it will) we will be called back in seniority order. At Endeavor, management can do whatever they wish now. Maybe this can be a reminder that when a company only offers you a raise in pay if you dissolve your union it’s not going to work out for you in the long run
 
ATLiens said:
Actually, this is a unionized profession so I think it’s a perfect time to remind people in our industry about the importance of unions. When Oct comes, if demand hasn’t drastically increased, Union or not, people will be furloughed. But, at least those in union shops will be furloughed with already agreed upon conditions in our contracts. And when demand does pick back up (and it will) we will be called back in seniority order. At Endeavor, management can do whatever they wish now. Maybe this can be a reminder that when a company only offers you a raise in pay if you dissolve your union it’s not going to work out for you in the long run
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Gotta agree with this. Skywest dispatchers have already seen their hours cut because they are non-union.

We may only be dispatching 10-20% of the flights we were before this started, but at least those of us in a union shop can't have our hours cut without the union agreeing to an MOU.
 
ATLiens said:
Actually, this is a unionized profession so I think it’s a perfect time to remind people in our industry about the importance of unions. When Oct comes, if demand hasn’t drastically increased, Union or not, people will be furloughed. But, at least those in union shops will be furloughed with already agreed upon conditions in our contracts. And when demand does pick back up (and it will) we will be called back in seniority order. At Endeavor, management can do whatever they wish now. Maybe this can be a reminder that when a company only offers you a raise in pay if you dissolve your union it’s not going to work out for you in the long run
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I have heard that the main reason for the union being voted out at Endeavor was due to an agreement the pilots and F/A's have in their contract about other unionized work groups not receiving pay raises unless they also did. I don't work there so don't quote me on this, but I could see getting other people in the office (such as schedulers) getting raises, being paid more than you, being disheartening. Also, the union they had chosen, PAFCA, is pretty much self-funded and organized from within. This works fine at a larger, "career" airline but at a small one if half the board members get hired by majors it makes for a challenging time. With TWU, there is normally just one shop steward at smaller airlines so it's easier to replace them if they leave the company. All this being said...my experiences at non-union airlines have made me happy to be in one with defined benefits and wages that can't be changed at the whim of management, or laid off out of seniority order. IIRC, many moons ago, when Alaska had to do layoffs they chose to lay off the most senior dispatchers there in order to save the most money for the company - this led to a rapid unionization drive and vote there, and they have been union ever since.
 
manniax said:
I have heard that the main reason for the union being voted out at Endeavor was due to an agreement the pilots and F/A's have in their contract about other unionized work groups not receiving pay raises unless they also did. I don't work there so don't quote me on this, but I could see getting other people in the office (such as schedulers) getting raises, being paid more than you, being disheartening. Also, the union they had chosen, PAFCA, is pretty much self-funded and organized from within. This works fine at a larger, "career" airline but at a small one if half the board members get hired by majors it makes for a challenging time. With TWU, there is normally just one shop steward at smaller airlines so it's easier to replace them if they leave the company. All this being said...my experiences at non-union airlines have made me happy to be in one with defined benefits and wages that can't be changed at the whim of management, or laid off out of seniority order. IIRC, many moons ago, when Alaska had to do layoffs they chose to lay off the most senior dispatchers there in order to save the most money for the company - this led to a rapid unionization drive and vote there, and they have been union ever since.
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Unions aren’t perfect. I’ve had issues with mine past and present. And I agree with you about regional shops-with lower wages and not a lot of capital from dues- they are a little more challenging. But my point remains...if a company is only willing to give you a raise to get rid of your union...they are not operating in good faith. And if they weren’t operating in good faith during the good times I’d be more than a little concerned now.
 
paincorp said:
Gotta agree with this. Skywest dispatchers have already seen their hours cut because they are non-union.
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I'm curious, would you rather have your hours cut short term (2-3 months) but have your job long term, or have your full hours short term and end up furloughed in 6 months? Personally speaking I'd rather go through a short period of suck if it means I still have my job and seniority in a year from now, versus looking for a new job or in a new job at the bottom of the seniority list, but that's just me. I'm genuinely curious how you view that situation.
 
flynryan692 said:
I'm curious, would you rather have your hours cut short term (2-3 months) but have your job long term, or have your full hours short term and end up furloughed in 6 months? Personally speaking I'd rather go through a short period of suck if it means I still have my job and seniority in a year from now, versus looking for a new job or in a new job at the bottom of the seniority list, but that's just me. I'm genuinely curious how you view that situation.
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I'd rather keep full pay and not get furloughed which will be my situation since I'm unionized.
 
flynryan692 said:
I'm curious, would you rather have your hours cut short term (2-3 months) but have your job long term, or have your full hours short term and end up furloughed in 6 months? Personally speaking I'd rather go through a short period of suck if it means I still have my job and seniority in a year from now, versus looking for a new job or in a new job at the bottom of the seniority list, but that's just me. I'm genuinely curious how you view that situation.
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No one knows if taking a reduction in hours now will mean you get to keep your job in 6 months.
 
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