information about these schools
- Thread starter ice man
- Start date
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
all I can say is that it depends.
how long do you want your training to last?
how much money do you have to spend?
what help with visas do you need?
Rather than asking for info on schools, yo need to supply information about yourself to give those perspectives on the schools.
how long do you want your training to last?
how much money do you have to spend?
what help with visas do you need?
Rather than asking for info on schools, yo need to supply information about yourself to give those perspectives on the schools.
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
You need to beware of Aussie Air. The students are having a real problem with them right now. You can go to www.aussieairsucks.com to see what is going on there. The current advice from the students is to avoid Aussie Air!
I know a number of students that did get their ratings at Phoenix East. However it is a mill and some have said they do not care about their students.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish? What is your current experience level?
Joe
I know a number of students that did get their ratings at Phoenix East. However it is a mill and some have said they do not care about their students.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish? What is your current experience level?
Joe
thank you for your comments well my goal is to complete 500 hours become a airlane pilot with all the things that my country requires, in order to get the license in my country but im still checking what they demand,i will give you more information about that soon.
well im looking prices between 50k and 40k could you recomend me some schools??, if it cost more tell me too i could probably analice the option of spending more money
well im looking prices between 50k and 40k could you recomend me some schools??, if it cost more tell me too i could probably analice the option of spending more money
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
Ice man,
The first thing I will tell you is that NO LEGITIMATE flight school is going to be able to get you your ratings and 500 LEGITIMATE flight hours for $40,000-$50,000.
It's just not possible. Anyone that tells you this is a fraudster and they will not be able to provide what they are representing. I guarantee you will have trouble and you will lose your money with this type of flight school.
You will find most of us (if not all of us) will recommend that you pay as you fly these days. Do not ever let a flight school get more than $2500 ahead of you in undelivered services.
I am seeing a disturbing trend in that some Florida flight schools are requiring large deposits and large monthly payments before you receive any services. Don't fall for these scams.
What happens is that before you realize what is going on you have paid $10,000-$40,000 before you have received any flight time and you have no way to get your money back if the flight school does not deliver.
Remember once you have paid your money, the flight school has no incentive to give you your flight time.
The scam these days is something like this:
1. Non refundable deposit of $1500 or so to get you hooked.
2. $10,000-$30,000 before you arrive at the school.
3. Monthly payments due on the first of each month of $10,000-$12,000 each.
Before you know it you have given these schools $30,000 during your first 35 days of school and not received any flight time. By the time you figure out the scam it is too late and you have just lost a bunch of money.
Only go to a pay as you fly flight school.
Joe
The first thing I will tell you is that NO LEGITIMATE flight school is going to be able to get you your ratings and 500 LEGITIMATE flight hours for $40,000-$50,000.
It's just not possible. Anyone that tells you this is a fraudster and they will not be able to provide what they are representing. I guarantee you will have trouble and you will lose your money with this type of flight school.
You will find most of us (if not all of us) will recommend that you pay as you fly these days. Do not ever let a flight school get more than $2500 ahead of you in undelivered services.
I am seeing a disturbing trend in that some Florida flight schools are requiring large deposits and large monthly payments before you receive any services. Don't fall for these scams.
What happens is that before you realize what is going on you have paid $10,000-$40,000 before you have received any flight time and you have no way to get your money back if the flight school does not deliver.
Remember once you have paid your money, the flight school has no incentive to give you your flight time.
The scam these days is something like this:
1. Non refundable deposit of $1500 or so to get you hooked.
2. $10,000-$30,000 before you arrive at the school.
3. Monthly payments due on the first of each month of $10,000-$12,000 each.
Before you know it you have given these schools $30,000 during your first 35 days of school and not received any flight time. By the time you figure out the scam it is too late and you have just lost a bunch of money.
Only go to a pay as you fly flight school.
Joe
JOEFRIDAY2
thanks for your answer, its true the things that you said.
well how much money do you think I will need?
Could you recommend me some of those pay as you fly schools???
jspeed87
colombiano??
Si hermano recien estoy averiguando todo lo necesario para hacer una eleccion correcta seria de mucha ayuda si tienes alguna informacion
thanks for your answer, its true the things that you said.
well how much money do you think I will need?
Could you recommend me some of those pay as you fly schools???
jspeed87
colombiano??
Si hermano recien estoy averiguando todo lo necesario para hacer una eleccion correcta seria de mucha ayuda si tienes alguna informacion
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
There are two Florida flight schools that I know about that are pay as you fly and are able to offer a VISA to foreign students.
I'm sure there are others, but the two that I know of are:
Sunstate Aviation in Kissimmee Florida (sunstateaviation.com) They had a number of students from Europe while I was there as well as American students. I saw students leave other flight schools to finish up here.
Ft Lauderdale Flight Training in Ft Lauderdale Florida. (Flflight.com) They had a number of students from India and Spain while I was there as well as American students. I also saw students leave other fight schools to finish up here.
Both are good schools with good instructors. I've been to both of these schools and know them to be reliable and deliver what they promise. Both operate the "old fashioned way". You keep the same instructor for your ground and your flight training all the way through. That will save you money!
Ft Lauderdale Flight Training is a newer school and their prices are lower. Their homepage shows a number of foreign students that have recently received their ratings.
Always talk to current and former students (that have completed their ratings) before you choose a flight school. Do not be taken in by the sales hype or the glitz and glamor of this business. Never pay more than $2500 in advance for anything!
Joe
I'm sure there are others, but the two that I know of are:
Sunstate Aviation in Kissimmee Florida (sunstateaviation.com) They had a number of students from Europe while I was there as well as American students. I saw students leave other flight schools to finish up here.
Ft Lauderdale Flight Training in Ft Lauderdale Florida. (Flflight.com) They had a number of students from India and Spain while I was there as well as American students. I also saw students leave other fight schools to finish up here.
Both are good schools with good instructors. I've been to both of these schools and know them to be reliable and deliver what they promise. Both operate the "old fashioned way". You keep the same instructor for your ground and your flight training all the way through. That will save you money!
Ft Lauderdale Flight Training is a newer school and their prices are lower. Their homepage shows a number of foreign students that have recently received their ratings.
Always talk to current and former students (that have completed their ratings) before you choose a flight school. Do not be taken in by the sales hype or the glitz and glamor of this business. Never pay more than $2500 in advance for anything!
Joe
JOEFRIDAY2
Well-Known Member
You also asked about costs and I'm going to detail this information in this separate post.
There are a number of costs that are the same no matter where you go.
FAA Examiner fees these days are around $400 everywhere.
The King, Cessna or Jeppersen kits are $300-$400 for each rating.
The FAR is about $15.
The Laser Grade Tests are $100-$110 for each rating.
So all of the above costs are not going to vary much at all. You have to pay them no matter what school you go to.
The items that will vary will be the cost of a place to stay, the plane rental and the instructors.
Keep in mind that you really need hours at this stage of your career. I've seen some students try to save hours and move as quickly through the training as possible. While that sounds good, you must remember that you are going to need as many hours as you can get and shaving hours will not really benefit you if you don't have a way to get them back.
I've heard some schools talk about larger airports having longer taxi times than uncontrolled fields. That is true, but you still need hours and the taxi time hours count the same as the flight hours. In addition if you are going to be a professional pilot, you are going to learn a lot during your taxi time at a larger controlled airport just by watching, listening and "driving" the plane. You will get very proficient with the radios, airport signs, hold short lines, other ground traffic, arriving and departing traffic and you will be gaining the solid experience you will need when you do fly passengers.
Many, many students have trouble with the radios and I believe this is because they did not gain the proper radio experience at uncontrolled fields. The initial radio procedure they learn at the uncontrolled airfield in then permanently imprinted in their brain. When they get to a controlled airfield they are unsure of their abilities and the proper procedures. Their radio procedures then need to be re-learned.
Basic trainers in the flight industry are the Cessna 152, the Diamond DA-20 and the Piper Cherokee.
Move up trainers are the Cessna 172, the Diamond DA-40 and the more powerful Piper Cherokee.
You can save $20-$30 an air hour by starting out in the basic trainers. Over the course of your private pilot training you could save as much as $2000 by using a basic trainer. For some this is worth it. For others it is not. If you weigh over 200 pounds and your instructor weighs over 200 pounds it can get pretty uncomfortable in a DA-20!
Plane rentals these days runs from $90-$180 per hour for a single engine aircraft. The newer planes rent for more. Older planes are fine if they are well maintained.
Instructors are priced at $30-$75 per hour these days. The instructors usually receive about 1/3rd of the amount charged and the flight schools keep the rest. Some flight schools let the instructor keep most of the amount charged. Those schools will sometimes be less expensive on instructor fees.
In the US, it takes around 70 hours for the average student to receive their Private. Some can do it in less. Some can take more.
So a career pilot starting with a private might look something like this:
Private Kit: $300
Medical First Class: $175
Private Laser Grade Test: $110
FAR: $15
Private Charts and books: $200
Headset: $350 (Bose are $1000)
Private Checkride: $400
70 hours plane rental $110 per hour: $7700
30 hours instructor $45 per hour: $1350
Total for private: $10,600.
You will need to add the cost of the VISA, hotel and food while you spend the 3-6 months getting your private.
When you move on to instrument it might look like this:
Instrument Kit: $300
Instrument Laser Grade test: $110
Instrument Charts and books: $200
Instrument Checkride: $400
IFR Plane Rental 50 hours @ 150: $7500
Instructor 50 hours @45: $2250
Total $10,760
Under this program you will have about 120 hours of flight time when you receive your instrument rating.
The next rating is your commercial rating. The commercial rating, although easier than the instrument rating, does require you to have at least 250 hours of flight time before you are able to take the practical flight test.
So this is where those hours you saved on your private and your instrument can come back to bite you! Now you need another 130 flight hours! Most students can get the commercial maneuvers to proficiency in 25 hours or less. That leaves you 105 hours short.
Those 105 hours are going to cost you around $10,000 to obtain legitimately.
In my opinion it is better to take longer (and more hours) on your private and instrument in order to obtain some of those hours that you will need in your logbook in order to be able to take your commercial flight test later.
What happens if you don't have enough hours is that you are then forced into a time building mode.
Believe it or not it gets pretty boring just flying a plane from one part of Florida to another just to land and come back. If you do this for 100 hours, you will get your time in, but you aren't going to learn a whole lot doing it. You are also in the mode of having to get the hours and not enjoying it while it is happening. It is a real shame to spend all of this money just to put hours in your log book and not get some enjoyment out of it.
So my recommendation is that you take a little extra time on your private. Don't sweat it. You are not wasting hours. You are going to need them for your commercial rating later. Do the same thing on your Instrument. The hours you "burn" on instrument are a whole lot more valuable and useful to your training than the hours you spend on time building.
If you can get close to 225 hours in your log book at the end of your private and instrument rating then you just need another 25 for your commerical.
Here is what the Single Engine Commercial might look like:
Commercial Kit: $300
Commercial Laser Grade test: $110
Commercial Charts and books: $200
Commercial Checkride: $400
Complex Plane Rental 25 hours @ 180: $4500
Instructor 25 hours @45: $1125
Total $6635
You now have everything you need except for the Multi Engine rating. The great news is that once you have your single engine commercial you can do a multi engine add on. Believe it or not there are almost no requirements for the multi engine add on other than you have to pass the practical and oral test. There is no written test or required number of hours for this rating.
So here is what the multi engine add on might look like:
10 hours plane rental @280 per hour: $2800
10 hours instructor@$45 per hour: $450
Checkride: $400
Total $3650
There you have it. A career pilot program at todays prices.
Keep in mind that if you pay as you fly then you are free to stop at anytime if something is just not working out for you. You can also pick your training back up when those issues are resolved.
Since 63% of beginning flight students wash out of training, it is important to have an exit strategy that will not cost you huge $$$$ if you fall into this category.
The worst thing that can happen is to wash out with no ratings and still owe a bank $75,000 because the flight school kept all of your money in penalties and termination fees.
Joe
There are a number of costs that are the same no matter where you go.
FAA Examiner fees these days are around $400 everywhere.
The King, Cessna or Jeppersen kits are $300-$400 for each rating.
The FAR is about $15.
The Laser Grade Tests are $100-$110 for each rating.
So all of the above costs are not going to vary much at all. You have to pay them no matter what school you go to.
The items that will vary will be the cost of a place to stay, the plane rental and the instructors.
Keep in mind that you really need hours at this stage of your career. I've seen some students try to save hours and move as quickly through the training as possible. While that sounds good, you must remember that you are going to need as many hours as you can get and shaving hours will not really benefit you if you don't have a way to get them back.
I've heard some schools talk about larger airports having longer taxi times than uncontrolled fields. That is true, but you still need hours and the taxi time hours count the same as the flight hours. In addition if you are going to be a professional pilot, you are going to learn a lot during your taxi time at a larger controlled airport just by watching, listening and "driving" the plane. You will get very proficient with the radios, airport signs, hold short lines, other ground traffic, arriving and departing traffic and you will be gaining the solid experience you will need when you do fly passengers.
Many, many students have trouble with the radios and I believe this is because they did not gain the proper radio experience at uncontrolled fields. The initial radio procedure they learn at the uncontrolled airfield in then permanently imprinted in their brain. When they get to a controlled airfield they are unsure of their abilities and the proper procedures. Their radio procedures then need to be re-learned.
Basic trainers in the flight industry are the Cessna 152, the Diamond DA-20 and the Piper Cherokee.
Move up trainers are the Cessna 172, the Diamond DA-40 and the more powerful Piper Cherokee.
You can save $20-$30 an air hour by starting out in the basic trainers. Over the course of your private pilot training you could save as much as $2000 by using a basic trainer. For some this is worth it. For others it is not. If you weigh over 200 pounds and your instructor weighs over 200 pounds it can get pretty uncomfortable in a DA-20!
Plane rentals these days runs from $90-$180 per hour for a single engine aircraft. The newer planes rent for more. Older planes are fine if they are well maintained.
Instructors are priced at $30-$75 per hour these days. The instructors usually receive about 1/3rd of the amount charged and the flight schools keep the rest. Some flight schools let the instructor keep most of the amount charged. Those schools will sometimes be less expensive on instructor fees.
In the US, it takes around 70 hours for the average student to receive their Private. Some can do it in less. Some can take more.
So a career pilot starting with a private might look something like this:
Private Kit: $300
Medical First Class: $175
Private Laser Grade Test: $110
FAR: $15
Private Charts and books: $200
Headset: $350 (Bose are $1000)
Private Checkride: $400
70 hours plane rental $110 per hour: $7700
30 hours instructor $45 per hour: $1350
Total for private: $10,600.
You will need to add the cost of the VISA, hotel and food while you spend the 3-6 months getting your private.
When you move on to instrument it might look like this:
Instrument Kit: $300
Instrument Laser Grade test: $110
Instrument Charts and books: $200
Instrument Checkride: $400
IFR Plane Rental 50 hours @ 150: $7500
Instructor 50 hours @45: $2250
Total $10,760
Under this program you will have about 120 hours of flight time when you receive your instrument rating.
The next rating is your commercial rating. The commercial rating, although easier than the instrument rating, does require you to have at least 250 hours of flight time before you are able to take the practical flight test.
So this is where those hours you saved on your private and your instrument can come back to bite you! Now you need another 130 flight hours! Most students can get the commercial maneuvers to proficiency in 25 hours or less. That leaves you 105 hours short.
Those 105 hours are going to cost you around $10,000 to obtain legitimately.
In my opinion it is better to take longer (and more hours) on your private and instrument in order to obtain some of those hours that you will need in your logbook in order to be able to take your commercial flight test later.
What happens if you don't have enough hours is that you are then forced into a time building mode.
Believe it or not it gets pretty boring just flying a plane from one part of Florida to another just to land and come back. If you do this for 100 hours, you will get your time in, but you aren't going to learn a whole lot doing it. You are also in the mode of having to get the hours and not enjoying it while it is happening. It is a real shame to spend all of this money just to put hours in your log book and not get some enjoyment out of it.
So my recommendation is that you take a little extra time on your private. Don't sweat it. You are not wasting hours. You are going to need them for your commercial rating later. Do the same thing on your Instrument. The hours you "burn" on instrument are a whole lot more valuable and useful to your training than the hours you spend on time building.
If you can get close to 225 hours in your log book at the end of your private and instrument rating then you just need another 25 for your commerical.
Here is what the Single Engine Commercial might look like:
Commercial Kit: $300
Commercial Laser Grade test: $110
Commercial Charts and books: $200
Commercial Checkride: $400
Complex Plane Rental 25 hours @ 180: $4500
Instructor 25 hours @45: $1125
Total $6635
You now have everything you need except for the Multi Engine rating. The great news is that once you have your single engine commercial you can do a multi engine add on. Believe it or not there are almost no requirements for the multi engine add on other than you have to pass the practical and oral test. There is no written test or required number of hours for this rating.
So here is what the multi engine add on might look like:
10 hours plane rental @280 per hour: $2800
10 hours instructor@$45 per hour: $450
Checkride: $400
Total $3650
There you have it. A career pilot program at todays prices.
Keep in mind that if you pay as you fly then you are free to stop at anytime if something is just not working out for you. You can also pick your training back up when those issues are resolved.
Since 63% of beginning flight students wash out of training, it is important to have an exit strategy that will not cost you huge $$$$ if you fall into this category.
The worst thing that can happen is to wash out with no ratings and still owe a bank $75,000 because the flight school kept all of your money in penalties and termination fees.
Joe
