IMC Electrical Failure

CoffeeIcePapers

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
While bored and studying for my CFII, I was wondering about this. Since I only have 1.5 hours of actual, I would like you guys to post your experience if you lost all electronics while in IMC.

Did you know of a VFR area that you could go to? How did you navigate using only the compass/HI?

Thanks.
 
Good question. While I haven't had this problem yet (knock on wood) I think it falls back to obtaining a very thorough weather briefing - knowing where the weather is and the movement of it - so that you can navigate to the VMC.

Having a handheld transceiver will solve many problems too! (contacting a FSS for help) :)

Sorry for the dumb response...
 
I have had an electrical failure once in IMC. Luckily it wasn't low IFR. I ended up using a handheld GPS to shoot a GPS approach into my local airport. Was that stupid? Yes. But I felt more comfortable shooting a familiar approach into a familiar airport.
 
I lost both alternators in a Seminole at night once. Wasn't IMC but we were over mountains. Those of you that know the PA44 system (the old ones)... left alternator failed and the right spiked to cover the load and shut off to protect its self. Had enough battery power to call PHX Approach, declare, tell them I planned to fly direct IWA (which we could see the beacon for 50 miles away) at an altitude that would clear the hills and then plan to land left traffic for 30L. We shut off all the lights except the beacon and killed com one (the Garmin430). We had everything until short final when my student went to drop the gear. The gear made it down but everything else shut off just as the three green lights came on. Worked out pretty well.
 
BobDDuck said:
I lost both alternators in a Seminole at night once. Wasn't IMC but we were over mountains. Those of you that know the PA44 system (the old ones)... left alternator failed and the right spiked to cover the load and shut off to protect its self. Had enough battery power to call PHX Approach, declare, tell them I planned to fly direct IWA (which we could see the beacon for 50 miles away) at an altitude that would clear the hills and then plan to land left traffic for 30L. We shut off all the lights except the beacon and killed com one (the Garmin430). We had everything until short final when my student went to drop the gear. The gear made it down but everything else shut off just as the three green lights came on. Worked out pretty well.
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Bob - what would you have done if it had been hard IMC and you couldn't see that beacon?
 
The examiner in my area loves to ask this question on the instrument checkride. You should know where the nearest VFR is so head that way stay at or above the MORA. Then he says well what if your DG fails how will you get there and you say using the mag. compass but you need to check the POH for your airplane; the 172 POH states that with the avionics master off the mag. compass could be up to i think 30 degrees off(i dont have mine in front of me) because of deviation. Just something to think about....
 
killbilly said:
Bob - what would you have done if it had been hard IMC and you couldn't see that beacon?
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Night IMC in mountainous terrain is one of the reasons I am glad I am done flying light piston twins with few backup systems.

If it had been IMC I had a pretty good idea where we were and would have first gotten above the MORA. Down there (along I10 west of PHX) it is relatively low (3000 or so I think) up to the north it goes well above 10000 in lots of places and that would have made life difficult. I would have been heading towards PHX by mag compass with everything shut down and hoping I had enough battery to call approach, get a steer to the ILS and then boogie on down once I thought I was there. If it had been a complete electrical failure (not a loss of power generation) I would have been pretty screwed. Maybe I think I would have kept heading towards PHX in the hopes of finding a hole to get down in and hope there are no granite clouds out there. Near the coasts (I always gave this answer during my checkrides in FL) I would head east or west (depending on which coast I was on) until I was pretty certain I was over the ocean. That way you at least know how low you can go. Then head back to shore and hope to see the beach and put it down there.
 
I had an alternator fail over the mountians of West Virginia at night in hard IMC. LOL sounds like a joke but it was the truth. I got a vectors from ATC to an airport 33 miles away, funny enough the longest runway in WV. Bout half way there the radio finally died and I had to make a landing in the pitch black darkness, no flaps, no landing lights, and the tower was closed for the day( no runway lights, PCLs). Its a wierd feeling heading for a big black nothingness to land.
 
BobDDuck said:
We had everything until short final when my student went to drop the gear. The gear made it down but everything else shut off just as the three green lights came on. Worked out pretty well.
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Might consider a manual extention next time?
 
flyguy said:
Might consider a manual extention next time?
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Yep. I didn't even really consider the gear. That became part of my lesson plan from then on out. (oh yeah, maybe THATs why people should instruct or fly some freight before going to the airlines.)
 
This isn't exactly the scenario mentioned but does involve decision making and how to procede...

I was flying checks at Airnet, had dropped off 1000 lbs in Cleveland and was headed back to Columbus empty one cool morning. It was your typical spring morning with lots of fog rolling through Columbus. My alternate was CMH. When I got the weather I knew taking a peak wasn't really a good idea, even through I was part 91. I didn't have very much "play around" fuel so there wasn't room for expermenting. My roommate, however, was racing me back in a Caravan and decided to throttle way back and hold. I told approach to give me a shot at CMH nearby and they told me that CMH was below mins also. Every part 91 operator could be heard going missed so no dice on the alternate. Approach suggested Ohio State, nearby as it's elevation was higher and the visibility was still good, for a bit at least. It took approach 15 mins to vector me around to OSU and the Navajo ahead of me went missed right as I was cleared for the approach. I decided to go missed and not even try and waste more fuel on the approach and getting all that altitude back if I didn't get in. So here I was 3 airports in the area and no place with good viz yet. I had about an hour of fuel left and didn't really want to declare min fuel or even worse a fuel emergency if I wasted more time. So I remembered that as I cruised in from the north, I saw the north border of the fog bank. I figured I wasn't too far from the edge of the fog, so I whipped out my enroute chart and picked a few airports to check the AWOS and ASOS on. I picked Delaware Municiple because I would be able to get the visual. My roommate, wondering now how long the fog would last and if he really wanted to hold that long decided to head in my direction and see how things were panning out for me up north. By the time I picked up the airport in sight fog was covering half the runway. I decided to cancel in the air so my roommate could get cleared for the visual before I landed and we both barely got in.

Not IMC partial panel with no radio, but I did have to think outside the box and use some judgement. I guess the point of my story is don't waste fuel, make a plan of action, and act on it. Use ATC if you can, they are helpful and are very informative but like in a no-radio scenario, you may need to make a PIC decision on your own.
 
When I was barely a private pilot I had an alternator failure at night. Due to lack of experience, and over reaction to the situation, I put myself and the plane in danger. I decided to land at an uncontrolled field that was just south of me. Instead of making a normal approach, with stabilized airspeeds, I dive bombed in. I was on short final with about 30 knots too much airspeed. I barely stopped at the end of the runway, to make it off the last taxi-way.

I spent about 10 minutes sitting on the taxi-way after I landed just trying to catch my breath.

I got a good lesson that night. The airplane still flies without the alternator. Even with a dead alternator you should have a decent amount of battery remaining.

Experience can be a good teacher, but it can also be a harsh realization.
 
This came up in my instrument checkride oral as well. My examiner's suggested solution, if VMC conditions weren't within range, was to tell ATC what's up, that you're gonna shut everything off and will check back with them every 15 minutes. Then fly your heading.

But honestly, this is where a handheld GPS becomes a cheap life insurance policy. I trust my handheld GPS more than I trust VORs or ADFs anyway.
 
bLizZuE said:
When I was barely a private pilot I had an alternator failure at night. Due to lack of experience, and over reaction to the situation, I put myself and the plane in danger. I decided to land at an uncontrolled field that was just south of me. Instead of making a normal approach, with stabilized airspeeds, I dive bombed in. I was on short final with about 30 knots too much airspeed. I barely stopped at the end of the runway, to make it off the last taxi-way.

I spent about 10 minutes sitting on the taxi-way after I landed just trying to catch my breath.

I got a good lesson that night. The airplane still flies without the alternator. Even with a dead alternator you should have a decent amount of battery remaining.

Experience can be a good teacher, but it can also be a harsh realization.
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It's ok don't feel to bad... did you hear the story about the kid from FSA who DITCHED in a field due to an alt failure? yea, down by lake O.... lol


There was another one about a guy feathering both engines in a seminole because he had an electrical failure and the gauges went to nothing.
 
Flysher said:
It's ok don't feel to bad... did you hear the story about the kid from FSA who DITCHED in a field due to an alt failure? yea, down by lake O.... lol


There was another one about a guy feathering both engines in a seminole because he had an electrical failure and the gauges went to nothing.
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Ouch, that one's going to leave a mark.

Lost ALT1 just after takeoff during Cirrus Training. There is an ALT2 but you start the clock on the glass going down. Had the CSIP (Cirrus Instructor) want to discuss the issue instead of following the checklist as he is a Mechanical Engineer and I am a Electrical Engineer. That lasted about 1 min when I then called the tower to tell them request vectors to return. They asked if I needed to declare (emergancy), and I had to tell the CSIP I would if he didnt help me get the bird back on the ground. We didn't declare, BTW.

We were NOT IFR but had to advoid clouds to come around. I had the CSIP pull the plates just in case we needed them before getting around.
 
Flysher said:
It's ok don't feel to bad... did you hear the story about the kid from FSA who DITCHED in a field due to an alt failure? yea, down by lake O.... lol


There was another one about a guy feathering both engines in a seminole because he had an electrical failure and the gauges went to nothing.
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The RPM gauge isn't electrical.
 
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