IFR to a Lat/Long

[deadstick]

FltPlan.com finally made it possible to file to a Lat/Long. When you handle an aircraft that filed this way, is it confusing or problematic when a destination is not an airport?

(back story)

 

[Stinger]

FltPlan.com finally made it possible to file to a Lat/Long. When you handle an aircraft that filed this way, is it confusing or problematic when a destination is not an airport?

(back story)

Cleared to (coordinates) as filed.
Then when you're inbound..."descend at pilot's discretion and maintain (altitude) report IFR cancellation this frequency when able."

 

[ppragman]

FltPlan.com finally made it possible to file to a Lat/Long. When you handle an aircraft that filed this way, is it confusing or problematic when a destination is not an airport?

(back story)

You should check your opspecs, I’ve worked at places where filing to a Lat/Long was not something you could do legally.

Edit for context:

In particular OpSpec B030

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

FltPlan.com finally made it possible to file to a Lat/Long. When you handle an aircraft that filed this way, is it confusing or problematic when a destination is not an airport?

(back story)

You might need to explain what you are doing to a confused controller, but you sometimes need to do that when your destination is a private airport with VFR flight following too. Other than that, I'm not aware of any regulatory issues (absent a limiting OpSpec of course).

 

[deadstick]

Thanks for trying replies, folks. We don’t have B030, but we do have B031,32, and 34. I was looking at the “single RNAV system” requirements. If you can turn the lat/long into a VOR radial/dist (service volume?) then the e(5) conditions should be satisfied.

Since we cannot accept an IFR clearance to an airport without weather, we’re still trying to figure out a clean way to go that way without getting into a prolonged discussion on the center freq.

 

[cmac88]

Thanks for trying replies, folks. We don’t have B030, but we do have B031,32, and 34. I was looking at the “single RNAV system” requirements. If you can turn the lat/long into a VOR radial/dist (service volume?) then the e(5) conditions should be satisfied.

Since we cannot accept an IFR clearance to an airport without weather, we’re still trying to figure out a clean way to go that way without getting into a prolonged discussion on the center freq.

A radial/dme would be better than any lat/long, I'd also just put the name of airport in remarks

 

[z987k]

Thanks for trying replies, folks. We don’t have B030, but we do have B031,32, and 34. I was looking at the “single RNAV system” requirements. If you can turn the lat/long into a VOR radial/dist (service volume?) then the e(5) conditions should be satisfied.

Since we cannot accept an IFR clearance to an airport without weather, we’re still trying to figure out a clean way to go that way without getting into a prolonged discussion on the center freq.

Pick any nearby airport via point point point Radial/DME that is where you're going.

 

[deadstick]

Our “system” is to use FltPlan.com, and it won’t take intersections or rad/DME, BUT it will take Lat/Long. It’s a real headache.

 

[Stinger]

I'm more confused on why your company allows IFR to an airport with weather, cancelling and continuing VFR to your actual destination, but doesn't allow you going to the real airport IFR?

 

[Flyinthrew]

Our “system” is to use FltPlan.com, and it won’t take intersections or rad/DME, BUT it will take Lat/Long. It’s a real headache.

fltpln.com will accept PPP/BBB/DDD format...just like any other filing system.

 

[Roger Roger]

fltpln.com will accept PPP/BBB/RRR format...just like any other filing system.

As a waypoint, but maybe not as a destination ?

 

[ppragman]

I'm more confused on why your company allows IFR to an airport with weather, cancelling and continuing VFR to your actual destination, but doesn't allow you going to the real airport IFR?

Part 135 is the issue here not the company. In particular opspec C064 and 135.225 (or maybe 223 can’t remember) are most likely at play.

Pick any nearby airport via point point point Radial/DME that is where you're going.

This is the right answer.

 

[deadstick]

As a waypoint, but maybe not as a destination ?

Correct.

 

[deadstick]

Pick any nearby airport via point point point Radial/DME that is where you're going.

Tried that. Still got sideways with ATC.

That’s the reason for this thread. Trying to find yet any other way to skin the cat. ATC doesn’t understand that, just because an airport has an IAP, we can’t file/accept an IFR clearance TO that airport. @ppragman is right. It’s a C064 issue, and we don’t have A057 for EOD.

 

[Stinger]

Tried that. Still got sideways with ATC.

That’s the reason for this thread. Trying to find yet any other way to skin the cat. ATC doesn’t understand that, just because an airport has an IAP, we can’t file/accept an IFR clearance TO that airport. @ppragman is right. It’s a C064 issue, and we don’t have A057 for EOD.

Whether ATC understands your opspecs or not doesn't seem like it'll really matter. If it takes a back and forth conversation with ATC to tell them you can't have a clearance to an airport without a weather source, then that's the route you'll probably have to go most times.
Sounds like a perfect situation to use a composite IFR-to-VFR flight plan though.

5-1-6. COMPOSITE FLIGHT PLAN (VFR/IFR FLIGHTS)

• a. Flight plans which specify VFR operation for one portion of a flight, and IFR for another portion, will be accepted by the FSS at the point of departure. If VFR flight is conducted for the first portion of the flight, pilots should report their departure time to the FSS with whom the VFR/IFR flight plan was filed; and, subsequently, close the VFR portion and request ATC clearance from the FSS nearest the point at which change from VFR to IFR is proposed. Regardless of the type facility you are communicating with (FSS, center, or tower), it is the pilot's responsibility to request that facility to "CLOSE VFR FLIGHT PLAN." The pilot must remain in VFR weather conditions until operating in accordance with the IFR clearance.
  b. When a flight plan indicates IFR for the first portion of flight and VFR for the latter portion, the pilot will normally be cleared to the point at which the change is proposed. After reporting over the clearance limit and not desiring further IFR clearance, the pilot should advise ATC to cancel the IFR portion of the flight plan. Then, the pilot should contact the nearest FSS to activate the VFR portion of the flight plan. If the pilot desires to continue the IFR flight plan beyond the clearance limit, the pilot should contact ATC at least 5 minutes prior to the clearance limit and request further IFR clearance. If the requested clearance is not received prior to reaching the clearance limit fix, the pilot will be expected to enter into a standard holding pattern on the radial or course to the fix unless a holding pattern for the clearance limit fix is depicted on a U.S. Government or commercially produced (meeting FAA requirements) low or high altitude enroute, area or STAR chart. In this case the pilot will hold according to the depicted pattern.

 

[greg1016]

Could you file the IAP at said airport as the clearance limit? Would that satisfy your ops? ERAM and even the legacy HOST should have no problem tracking you to a lat/long. I was ocean when I was at the center and we used lat/longs all the time. The terminal environment is another story, I have limited training and access with STARS, so I am not gonna comment on that, but I do not know of a way.

 

[MikeD]

fltpln.com will accept PPP/BBB/DDD format...just like any other filing system.

I file to an MGRS. Works every time.

Tried that. Still got sideways with ATC.

That’s the reason for this thread. Trying to find yet any other way to skin the cat. ATC doesn’t understand that, just because an airport has an IAP, we can’t file/accept an IFR clearance TO that airport.

In my F-117 days, due to the nature of our training requirements, our flight plans for our missions were filed point-to-point, with multiple points, to either a TACAN radial/distance, or occasionally a Lat/Long, as it came to routing. Unlike other military aircraft, we didn't regularly go to MOAs, unless there was a short formation flying part or checkride. In addition to filing, a list of the aircraft that day and their routings, was faxed to ZAB and ZFW, and also ZHU and ZDV if we happened to be going to the last two ARTCC areas. We stayed away from airways with our off-route flight plans. Never seemed to be an issue with ATC